1908 GE Pancakes

[Kim Frank]

The 1908 GE pancakes are the least recorded fans in the GE survey with only 14 entries. Of those, 8 belonged to me. I sold 2 trunnion mounts a couple of years ago, leaving six in my collection. I have a pair of 12 inch trunnion mounts that are consecutive serial numbered. 324456 and 324457. The xxx456 fan I bought on eBay about 15 years ago out of New York. XXX457 was in a collection from S. Florida and I traded for it in 2008. They probably sat side by side in a GE assembly room 114 years ago.

I have a pair of Stick mount cakes. Nothing interesting as far as serial numbers but they are the only two '08 sticks in the survey. I came by one from another collector in Texas back in 2010. The other one was on eBay back in August from Michigan. Chris Smith brought it down for me earlier this month.

I have a pair of 16 inch 1908 Trunnion mounts that are within 16 of each others serial numbers. Not consecutive but close. They maybe sat in the same room at GE 114 years ago too. Both have the latest recorded serial numbers in the GE survey 325373 and 325389. XXX389 came to me from Hickory NC a few years ago. It was a stump but the Number caught my eye. 325373 just arrived from Kansas City, Mo. Ron Wallace sold it to me when I inquired about it. It too was essentially a stump. Ron found it with a different blade and cage on it. It will now reside in the Museum with the others. 

If any of you have Cakes in your collections that you haven't sent me their info, please do so. With enough entries, patterns start to show so we can better understand how they were produced. Thanks

Edited September 29, 2022 by Kim Frank

[Jim Henderson]

Interesting that GE reverted back to brass struts with the intro. of the BMY.

[Kim Frank]

Steel struts started appearing on the 1906 models. The '07 and '08 models had steel struts with cages held in by beveled screws first then large round head screws later. It is interesting that GE used steel on the cakes and brass on the BMYs in the same production year.

[Mike Aidinovich]

Kim, are you looking for GE 1908 pancakes only for the survey or all GE pancakes regardless of year for the survey? 

[Kim Frank]

Mike, looking for all GE pancakes 1894-1908. As of today, I have 523 cakes registered in the survey.

[Roger Borg]

Is it known how many were manufactured in each year of production?

Are the S/N an accurate gauge of that info?

[Mike Aidinovich]

49 minutes ago, Kim Frank said:

Mike, looking for all GE pancakes 1894-1908. As of today, I have 523 cakes registered in the survey.

Excellent.  PM with info sent.

[Russ Huber]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:04 PM, Kim Frank said:

Steel struts started appearing on the 1906 models. The '07 and '08 models had steel struts with cages held in by beveled screws first then large round head screws later. It is interesting that GE used steel on the cakes and brass on the BMYs in the same production year.

I am perplexed with the steel struts in 06 as well. There was a financial crash in fall of 07, but that would have had no effect on materials in 06. It may all be GE, unlike Emerson, was simply cutting corners and getting cheap. Which reminds me I have an 06 16" cake with steel struts in a box that needs to get slapped together. Imagine that. 🙂 

The 07 panic knocked the wind out of George Westinghouse's sails. Morgan and other wealthy bankers played a part in bailing out the country.

Panic of 1907 - Wikipedia

[Lane Shirey]

My understanding is that the Panic of 07 and the bank demanding that Westinghouse pay down his debt was the reason that he brand labeled the tanks to other companies. (Western Elec, R&M, Shedd, others) His need for liquid cash got some companies into the fan business that otherwise might not have been his competitors later. 

[Kim Frank]

15 hours ago, Roger Borg said:

 

Are the S/N an accurate gauge of that info?

As a rule, the serial numbers are fairly accurate for year of manufacture after 1899. In the survey, the years 1897 thru 1899 have the most "out of sequence" s/n's. For a fan with one of those numbers, I use the fans type and form letters and numbers, along with its characteristics to determine a year. For example, lets say you have a fan with a serial number 22372. According to information we have access to, the fan falls in the 1897 year of manufacture (14201-23600). Type and form are UI and F4. That tells me it's a 1899 stickmount. Knowing that, then the fans characteristics are smooth base, back switch, no perimeter vent holes, wrapped cage with rear and front rings having the same thickness of brass stock, no oil return, and an over the bearing grease cup. Blade is cast brass hub with one or no oil slingers.  No idea why the s/n is out of the given range of 31001-44000. While the numbers usually fall within the givens for each year, there are always other ways to determine a year.

Russ, when you get that '06 out, let me know the tag info.

[Roger Borg]

So would it be reasonable to speculate about 10,000 were made a year?

About 10 years production, so maybe 100k were once in existence?

3 minutes ago, Kim Frank said:

As a rule, the serial numbers are fairly accurate for year of manufacture after 1899. In the survey, the years 1897 thru 1899 have the most "out of sequence" s/n's. For a fan with one of those numbers, I use the fans type and form letters and numbers, along with its characteristics to determine a year. For example, lets say you have a fan with a serial number 22372. According to information we have access to, the fan falls in the 1897 year of manufacture (14201-23600). Type and form are UI and F4. That tells me it's a 1899 stickmount. Knowing that, then the fans characteristics are smooth base, back switch, no perimeter vent holes, wrapped cage with rear and front rings having the same thickness of brass stock, no oil return, and an over the bearing grease cup. Blade is cast brass hub with one or no oil slingers.  No idea why the s/n is out of the given range of 31001-44000. While the numbers usually fall within the givens for each year, there are always other ways to determine a year.

Russ, when you get that '06 out, let me know the tag info.

 

[Russ Huber]

4 hours ago, Lane Shirey said:

My understanding is that the Panic of 07 and the bank demanding that Westinghouse pay down his debt was the reason that he brand labeled the tanks to other companies. (Western Elec, R&M, Shedd, others) His need for liquid cash got some companies into the fan business that otherwise might not have been his competitors later. 

George lost control of that aspect of the company in 07. The company went into receivership and the bankers took control as I understand it. I doubt very much that had any influence on the rebadged/tagged Westinghouse fan motors.

[Russ Huber]

4 hours ago, Kim Frank said:

Russ, when you get that '06 out, let me know the tag info.

I think I posted the tag/serial in past, but not sure. Serial 248622.  I remember it was a good runner with nice brass before it ended up powder coated in pieces in a box. 🙂 

[Lane Shirey]

20 hours ago, Russ Huber said:

George lost control of that aspect of the company in 07. The company went into receivership and the bankers took control as I understand it. I doubt very much that had any influence on the rebadged/tagged Westinghouse fan motors.

Actually I read about that retagging in some Westinghouse history. Can’t recall where. His fan sales declined and he needed a way to raise revenue. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Lane Shirey

[Ted Kaczor]

Here 12" 1908 Yoke mount N0.318712

Next 16" 1908 Yoke mount N0.324916

Funally a muzeum quality all original, my best original finish fan, a PUZZLE!- 12" Stick mount (looks like 1907 or 1908) but the N0.235726 indicates 1906. I do not believe the housing casting and struts were like that in 1906.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ted Kaczor

[Kim Frank]

Ted, the 16 inch is very late into the 1908 production, with only three fans listed beyond yours, all of them 16 inch. The 12 inch Trunnion is right in the middle of production, but still an unusual fan because of it's serial number. The stick mount is the second variant for 1906 and continued thru end of production in 1908. Yours is unusual because the serial number for your model is usually found on the first variant 1906, with the earlier style motor and smooth base. The second variant 1906, smooth motor housing and base like your example start appearing in the survey around s/n 262xxx. There is a first variant in the survey with a s/n around 267xxx, so go figure. Your stickmount is still a rare example, as it is one of two 2nd variant sticks listed in the survey. All three are keepers. Thanks for sharing. I have added all three to the survey. Talk at you soon.