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1920s or 1930s vintage GE Ceiling fan aquired


Levi Mevis

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Hello everyone, today I found on facebook marketplace an either 1920s or 1930s vintage GE Ceiling fan that is all there except for the snap switch and blades, and the hanger assembly, that I am going to pick up tomorrow afternoon, and I was able to get it for $75 (they were originally asking $100, and I had explained to the person that the fan missing the snap switch and the blades would detract from the value of the fan and offered him $75 for it and he took it.)

I have some questions about this fan, it appears to have some provisions in the switch body for some lights, how hard would it be to wire in some lights for the light, and then how old is this fan actually (see attached pictures from listing), and how hard would it be to source a new switch and blades for this fan? If a new snap switch couldn't be sourced would it be possible to install a blank plate to go over the hole where the snap switch used to sit and install a pull-chain switch or just use a solid state variable speed control switch for a ceiling fan to control the fan?

Also could one use a modern style ceiling fan downrod mounting kit for this fan to mount the fan to the ceiling?

I would like to try and fix this fan up and install it in my living room in my house which currently doesn't have any sort of overhead light or ceiling fan installed (it had an overhead light of some sort at one time because you can see the outline of the old electrical box that used to be in the living room but was removed and plastered over in favor of a switched outlet that was attached to possibly a swag lamp or floor lamp of some sort.)

Any help with this would be appreciated.

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             I'm really asking for it here...

 

   With those sort of numbers on the tag you're more in the WW1 era.....

        All this information is available with a search in the Forum...

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Thanks, also I wasn't paid up until last night so I couldn't use the search feature for that part of the forum, so that's why I had to ask.

Also I'm not as familiar with antique ceiling fans as I am with table fans and box fans and that's why I had to ask on here about it.

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Downrod is just 3/4" threaded pipe from Homer's. Black or galvanized. You'll need a hanger and a hook to mount it. 

Lights are easy, just find some threaded arms, or part out a junk light kit from a newer fan. Might need reducer bushings to make the threads fit the arm. You can get everything from Grand Brass.

The light wiring just goes straight down the shaft into the nose and gets tied in there. Derek Wernecke makes a darn nice replacement snap switch or you can just find an on/off one. Make sure the holes line up; they made lots of different sizes of switches. 

Nice fan. Easy to work on, and very well made.

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Thanks Andrew for the information, I think I should be able to find some stuff at my local Ace Hardware or Lowes or Menards. Would one of those old Hunter Original Downrod kits work on this fan? Also the fan is missing the canopies (the top and bottom canopy pieces that cover the speed coil wiring area and the hanger area on the ceiling) where might one source one of those, and also could one just modify the speed switch so that it would work with a pull-chain by installing a blank piece of sheet metal cut to the correct diameter of the old snap-switch opening and then a hole drilled into the middle for a pull-chain switch and then holes drilled in for the mounting screws?

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I'm working on a couple Emersons now similar era.  Definitely clean out and check the bearings, clean out all the old crud from the oil pot and make sure any dirt dobber nests are cleared.  I found that replacement bearings are not too hard to source for these ceiling fans, just use a micrometer and you can find them easily.  Lights are easy, just add arms and wiring.  Switch can be found all over the place, I am using a simple 3-setting stove switch on one Emerson, bolts right on.  Fun fans to work on but takes time.

 

Chris

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33 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said:

Thanks Andrew for the information, I think I should be able to find some stuff at my local Ace Hardware or Lowes or Menards. Would one of those old Hunter Original Downrod kits work on this fan? Also the fan is missing the canopies (the top and bottom canopy pieces that cover the speed coil wiring area and the hanger area on the ceiling) where might one source one of those, and also could one just modify the speed switch so that it would work with a pull-chain by installing a blank piece of sheet metal cut to the correct diameter of the old snap-switch opening and then a hole drilled into the middle for a pull-chain switch and then holes drilled in for the mounting screws?

For the upper canopy, you might want to check out the Hunter Original canopy with remote control built in.  I will be using that with an Emerson soon.  I have one used on a Original Hunter and it works great, also very discreet.  You can use either the Original Hunter kits downrod or the eye loop type as original, just has to be sturdy enough to take 30-40lbs of metal hanging over your head.  I am using the newer Hunter kit that came with the Original Hunter fan, not the bushing type.  Could also loop in a safety catch cable (extra labor) if you are uncertain.  The lower canopy, maybe find one that can fit on Ebay, not too expensive.

 

Chris

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2 hours ago, Levi Mevis said:

Thanks Andrew for the information, I think I should be able to find some stuff at my local Ace Hardware or Lowes or Menards. Would one of those old Hunter Original Downrod kits work on this fan? Also the fan is missing the canopies (the top and bottom canopy pieces that cover the speed coil wiring area and the hanger area on the ceiling) where might one source one of those, and also could one just modify the speed switch so that it would work with a pull-chain by installing a blank piece of sheet metal cut to the correct diameter of the old snap-switch opening and then a hole drilled into the middle for a pull-chain switch and then holes drilled in for the mounting screws?

A Hunter original hanger would work fine. You can use a Hunter canopy too for the upper. Lower canopy is a specialized GE part. It's aesthetic, not functional so you can use the fan without it.

A regular pull chain or rotary switch will work fine. I've done that lots of times. I used to use a brass lighting cap. Just make sure the switch is L-1, L-2, L-3 and not L-1, L-2, L-1+2.

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17 hours ago, Andrew Block said:

A Hunter original hanger would work fine. You can use a Hunter canopy too for the upper. Lower canopy is a specialized GE part. It's aesthetic, not functional so you can use the fan without it.

A regular pull chain or rotary switch will work fine. I've done that lots of times. I used to use a brass lighting cap. Just make sure the switch is L-1, L-2, L-3 and not L-1, L-2, L-1+2.

I think they have 3-speed pull-chain switches for ceiling fans, which is what I would use but this fan is supposedly a 2 speed fan according to some ads posted on here by a fellow member so wouldn't a 2-speed pull chain work better? As for the Hunter Original Downrod kits go, where's the best place to get one of those? Also my house has 9 foot ceilings, about how long of a downrod would I need?

I did get the fan disassembled and the windings are still in good shape yet as well as the rotor, the only things that are questionable is the bearing and the speed coil assembly, the bearing race(?) (the part that has the ball bearings in it) looks like it was smashed at one point in time but the bearing washers are still in good shape yet and the speed coil has 4 wires coming out of it and all 4 wires are missing some of their original cloth insulation in spots, is there a wiring diagram for the speed coil assembly on this fan as to which wires go to where and what they do?

as for wiring up and turning on and off the lights independently from the light switch, is there a way to wire up a pull-chain switch to the lights on the fan itself, or would i have to do what they did back in the old days and just put independent keyed light sockets on each light socket holder?

 

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Edited by Levi Mevis
added pictures of bearings and speed coil
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I think they have 3-speed pull-chain switches for ceiling fans, which is what I would use but this fan is supposedly a 2 speed fan according to some ads posted on here by a fellow member so wouldn't a 2-speed pull chain work better? As for the Hunter Original Downrod kits go, where's the best place to get one of those? Also my house has 9 foot ceilings, about how long of a downrod would I need?

Your coil appears to have 2 leads, which would make it a 3 speed. Only medium and low go through the coil; high shunts directly to the output of the coil. My shop could provide Hunter parts. I'd probably hang it on a 6" or so downrod. 

I did get the fan disassembled and the windings are still in good shape yet as well as the rotor, the only things that are questionable is the bearing and the speed coil assembly, the bearing race(?) (the part that has the ball bearings in it) looks like it was smashed at one point in time but the bearing washers are still in good shape yet and the speed coil has 4 wires coming out of it and all 4 wires are missing some of their original cloth insulation in spots, is there a wiring diagram for the speed coil assembly on this fan as to which wires go to where and what they do?

If the balls turn fine, then it's probably fine unless theres flat spots on it or the races. That will be submerged in oil, which helps to cushion and prevent sound transfer. If the coil has 4 wires, it may have 2 seperate sections for medium and low. You'll need to multimeter it out to determine the resistance. Hookup is just higher resistance = lower speed.

as for wiring up and turning on and off the lights independently from the light switch, is there a way to wire up a pull-chain switch to the lights on the fan itself, or would i have to do what they did back in the old days and just put independent keyed light sockets on each light socket holder?

You can wire it up however you want. If you've only got one circuit from the wall switch then the fan and light need to have seperate switches on the fan and how you configure it is up to you. Typically, back then, the fan is controlled by the center switch and the lights were individual, unless you did side switches. Me? I'd prefer one switch for fan and one for lights. It's just configuring it that is the issue.

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As your coil has four wires, I would actually figure your fan has four speeds.  The coil would typically be 1 lead in, 3 leads for 3 speed levels and one bypass for full speed.  You can use your VOM to measure resistance on the leads.  There should be one input one highest resistance (other end of the coil) and two taps in between.  Technically either end of the coil can be an input.  If you take apart a fan, I highly recommend taking pictures to document original hookups as the colors will have long faded on cotton wires over the ages.  Your options for switches will be modern switch with pullchain or the old style ceramic knob speed switch but the old style will only support up to 3 speeds. 

You are right to stay away from the 3 speed switches with the 1+2 setting if you have speed control built into a newer motor (todays multi-speeds have multi-windings in the stator) because it will cook the motor, on this fan, 1+2 would simply be on the speed coil and would just short a tap, essentially 1+2 wouldn't do harm but it's a useless setting meaning you would have 2 speeds instead of 3. 

As for your ceiling, it depends on if you have an angle to the ceiling, you want to set the fan far enough so the blades will clear.  You'll have to determine how far you want the fan to be, your preference so long as the blades clear.  Poles can be found at home depot, better to use lighter poles for weight concerns.  You can find bracket kits from Hunter, two flavors, the newer ball style or loop and bumper.  Make sure it is specified for the Original Hunter due to weight load.  or you can find a beefy hook and hang from your beams with the old porcelain loop.

From the looks of your bearing, it was probably designed to work without a race (offset balls).  I personally have issue with that as it causes the brass cage to pick a spot on the shaft and eat into the cage.  My choice would be to measure the bearing OD and ID (estimate from shaft diameter) and pick out a new bearing with races, they are cheap. 

I don't understand your light question.  You can always "add" a switch by drilling a hole if you don't have a hole.  Or like today's fans, run the light wire out and use the remote control to trigger the light.  The wonderful thing is that this is an antique, it will not meet code, you can be creative however you feel!  Keep it original looking as possible (like my style) or go all out and customize it. 

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Here is a typical schematic of the fan and speed coil.  Yours will probably be the same, if not find out why not.  You can use heat shrink tube and solder to change the rotten wires.  As always, take pics while you take apart and document everything.

20230523_144535.jpg

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7 hours ago, Andrew Block said:

I think they have 3-speed pull-chain switches for ceiling fans, which is what I would use but this fan is supposedly a 2 speed fan according to some ads posted on here by a fellow member so wouldn't a 2-speed pull chain work better? As for the Hunter Original Downrod kits go, where's the best place to get one of those? Also my house has 9 foot ceilings, about how long of a downrod would I need?

Your coil appears to have 2 leads, which would make it a 3 speed. Only medium and low go through the coil; high shunts directly to the output of the coil. My shop could provide Hunter parts. I'd probably hang it on a 6" or so downrod. 

I did get the fan disassembled and the windings are still in good shape yet as well as the rotor, the only things that are questionable is the bearing and the speed coil assembly, the bearing race(?) (the part that has the ball bearings in it) looks like it was smashed at one point in time but the bearing washers are still in good shape yet and the speed coil has 4 wires coming out of it and all 4 wires are missing some of their original cloth insulation in spots, is there a wiring diagram for the speed coil assembly on this fan as to which wires go to where and what they do?

If the balls turn fine, then it's probably fine unless theres flat spots on it or the races. That will be submerged in oil, which helps to cushion and prevent sound transfer. If the coil has 4 wires, it may have 2 seperate sections for medium and low. You'll need to multimeter it out to determine the resistance. Hookup is just higher resistance = lower speed.

as for wiring up and turning on and off the lights independently from the light switch, is there a way to wire up a pull-chain switch to the lights on the fan itself, or would i have to do what they did back in the old days and just put independent keyed light sockets on each light socket holder?

You can wire it up however you want. If you've only got one circuit from the wall switch then the fan and light need to have seperate switches on the fan and how you configure it is up to you. Typically, back then, the fan is controlled by the center switch and the lights were individual, unless you did side switches. Me? I'd prefer one switch for fan and one for lights. It's just configuring it that is the issue.

Yes I only have one light switch controlling the lighting in my livingroom where the fan will be hanging, which right now the switch is wired to an outlet in my livingroom.

the ball bearings still spin fine and don't have any flat spots on them but the cover that goes over the balls is warped/bent which I don't know if that would affect its performance or not. 

I have looked on feebay and they do have some antique snap switches for sale on there that are like what would of been used on this fan but they are mainly "on/off" switches there weren't any 3 speed versions for sale, they had some old snap switches that were marked "Off-High-Med-Low" that were from or for use on antique electric ranges or antique Electric Hot Plates, but the switch diameter was too big on them to fit in the nose of the ceiling fan.

I was looking around on the internet and I was looking up Hunter Original downrod kits and nothing came up in my search results not even on Hunters' own website. 

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7 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Here is a typical schematic of the fan and speed coil.  Yours will probably be the same, if not find out why not.  You can use heat shrink tube and solder to change the rotten wires.  As always, take pics while you take apart and document everything.

20230523_144535.jpg

The speed coil was already disconnected when I got the fan because there wasn't a switch attached to the fan when I got it, so the wires were just hanging out of the top of the fan.

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Yes I only have one light switch controlling the lighting in my livingroom where the fan will be hanging, which right now the switch is wired to an outlet in my livingroom.

Then two options, use the remote control or manual switch (or both if you want more work).  The speed coil and speed switch won't really be necessary if you are just going to use a wireless remote.  As Andrew said, higher resistance lower speed.  If all the wires were loose it might be a bad coil or maybe the switch failed.  Figure this, if your ceiling is 9' depending on the angle of the ceiling if any, would the fan be reachable to turn that switch anyways? 

the ball bearings still spin fine and don't have any flat spots on them but the cover that goes over the balls is warped/bent which I don't know if that would affect its performance or not. 

This is a matter of preference.  I don't really know how your bearing is set up but on my oldest Emerson, there was a lower bearing plate 4mm thick and the top plate, which was actually the face of the rotor.  Both base and top surfaces were well worn and the bearing cage (holds the balls in place) was worn because since the bearing did not have a race, the whole cage assembly moved freely around and wore the inner cage sufficiently to release the balls. 

In your case if the balls seem ok, not too pitted or flat sided as Andrew said, you can still use them.  The upper "cover" I am guessing you mean a top plate which the bearings roll against.  If that is bent, you probably just want to replace it as any deviation from smooth will potentially cause noise and shims can be found inexpensively.  However in that case I would personally just replace the whole bearing for one with races, probably just a few dollars more and the bearing won't wander.

I have looked on feebay and they do have some antique snap switches for sale on there that are like what would of been used on this fan but they are mainly "on/off" switches there weren't any 3 speed versions for sale, they had some old snap switches that were marked "Off-High-Med-Low" that were from or for use on antique electric ranges or antique Electric Hot Plates, but the switch diameter was too big on them to fit in the nose of the ceiling fan.

I'm not a huge fan of Ebay either but it gets the job done, I also compare to Amazon.  Peronsally I am using a Off High Med Low switch on one Emerson, mostly check outside diameter and through hole location, if you get one bolt through it's probably secure enough.  Actual authentic 3 marked speed switches are scarce, they usually stay on the fan or get mashed when the fan hits something.  Matter of preference here, search high and low, spend some bucks, get a more or less original or be creative for less cost and time.

I was looking around on the internet and I was looking up Hunter Original downrod kits and nothing came up in my search results not even on Hunters' own website. 

You might need to call them to get a kit, they still sell Original Hunter fans.  Or your best friend "feebay" has parts too at whatever market is willing to cough up.

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There are no remotes to my knowledge that work for old shaded pole fans.

If the bearings aren't scored then they're probably good. Out of 300+ fans I've restored, I've changed the bearings in maybe 20 of them. They're submerged in oil at all times, that helps prevent sound transfer. 

Most of the snap switches on ebay are from stoves or hot plates and are the 1, 2, 1+2. 

Hunter sells a "Relocation Kit"  which contains the mounting parts and some oil. Might be hard to find these days. We stocked them for years but ended up making up our own. 

If I were you, I'd not invest much money or time into that GE until you find blades. Then you can properly test it.

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Block said:

There are no remotes to my knowledge that work for old shaded pole fans.

If the bearings aren't scored then they're probably good. Out of 300+ fans I've restored, I've changed the bearings in maybe 20 of them. They're submerged in oil at all times, that helps prevent sound transfer. 

Most of the snap switches on ebay are from stoves or hot plates and are the 1, 2, 1+2. 

Hunter sells a "Relocation Kit"  which contains the mounting parts and some oil. Might be hard to find these days. We stocked them for years but ended up making up our own. 

If I were you, I'd not invest much money or time into that GE until you find blades. Then you can properly test it.

If I were to look for some original blades and blade irons for this fan, What key words would I use when searching ebay for such a thing? 

Also I found a couple of videos on youtube of some people who I'm assuming are members of the AFCA that had some fans just like mine that they restored and and their fans were being run off of a Solid State Fan Contoller, they didn't have the original snapswitch in the nose, nor the original speed coil in the lower canopy, if I were to go that route, could i just buy an old "ON/OFF" snap-switch off ebay to stick in the nose for aestetics (non-functional) and then just wire the motor straight to the solid state fan controller and just be done with it, or again perhaps just use a modern 3-speed ceiling fan pull-chain switch with a modified piece of sheet metal installed in the nose fastened to the original snap-switch mounting holes, if I wanted to utilize the original speed coil assembly? 

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5 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Yes I only have one light switch controlling the lighting in my livingroom where the fan will be hanging, which right now the switch is wired to an outlet in my livingroom.

Then two options, use the remote control or manual switch (or both if you want more work).  The speed coil and speed switch won't really be necessary if you are just going to use a wireless remote.  As Andrew said, higher resistance lower speed.  If all the wires were loose it might be a bad coil or maybe the switch failed.  Figure this, if your ceiling is 9' depending on the angle of the ceiling if any, would the fan be reachable to turn that switch anyways? 

the ball bearings still spin fine and don't have any flat spots on them but the cover that goes over the balls is warped/bent which I don't know if that would affect its performance or not. 

This is a matter of preference.  I don't really know how your bearing is set up but on my oldest Emerson, there was a lower bearing plate 4mm thick and the top plate, which was actually the face of the rotor.  Both base and top surfaces were well worn and the bearing cage (holds the balls in place) was worn because since the bearing did not have a race, the whole cage assembly moved freely around and wore the inner cage sufficiently to release the balls. 

In your case if the balls seem ok, not too pitted or flat sided as Andrew said, you can still use them.  The upper "cover" I am guessing you mean a top plate which the bearings roll against.  If that is bent, you probably just want to replace it as any deviation from smooth will potentially cause noise and shims can be found inexpensively.  However in that case I would personally just replace the whole bearing for one with races, probably just a few dollars more and the bearing won't wander.

I have looked on feebay and they do have some antique snap switches for sale on there that are like what would of been used on this fan but they are mainly "on/off" switches there weren't any 3 speed versions for sale, they had some old snap switches that were marked "Off-High-Med-Low" that were from or for use on antique electric ranges or antique Electric Hot Plates, but the switch diameter was too big on them to fit in the nose of the ceiling fan.

I'm not a huge fan of Ebay either but it gets the job done, I also compare to Amazon.  Peronsally I am using a Off High Med Low switch on one Emerson, mostly check outside diameter and through hole location, if you get one bolt through it's probably secure enough.  Actual authentic 3 marked speed switches are scarce, they usually stay on the fan or get mashed when the fan hits something.  Matter of preference here, search high and low, spend some bucks, get a more or less original or be creative for less cost and time.

I was looking around on the internet and I was looking up Hunter Original downrod kits and nothing came up in my search results not even on Hunters' own website. 

You might need to call them to get a kit, they still sell Original Hunter fans.  Or your best friend "feebay" has parts too at whatever market is willing to cough up.

I guess my wording/terminology useage wasn't clear, I meant the bearing cage (the part that contains the ball bearings, not the part the bearings ride on), the bearing plates (as you call them, which is the part that the bearing cage rides between) are in good shape yet, it was the bearing cage that was damaged, but I actually was able to straighten it out so its fine now.

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Yup, can reuse the bearing, matter of personal choice really.  They will work, not missing balls like mine was.  I would agree with Andrew on the blades, figure your clearance and verify full operation first before thinking of mounting.  You are probably at a good starting point. Source your blades, figure out your wiring and then get back if you have more issues.  

20230517_094617.jpg

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On 5/23/2023 at 6:18 PM, Chris Jacobsen said:

Typical 3 speed 1-2-3 switch

16848803030798587771008399073029.jpg

That's a table fan 3-speed switch...🤓 You would not use that on a ceiling fan.

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19 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said:

That's a table fan 3-speed switch...🤓 You would not use that on a ceiling fan.

Well it is actually only for lights not even fans BUT it is what is on my desk at the moment to illustrate 4 wires and not 3 so not the 1,2,1+2 switches that are all too typical lately.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've got the old rotted wires replaced on the motor and the speed coil on my fan but now I need to figure out how to wire the fan up so I can test it to see if it works or not, anyone have a proper wiring diagram for the GE type AH ceiling fan, that includes the speed coil?

Edited by Levi Mevis
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