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Posted
On 11/22/2024 at 9:10 PM, Bill Dunlap said:

I'm probably going to fab up a jig for forming S wire curves.  Most all S wires have two different radii and I think it's not just for aesthetics. With two different curves, you have an offset for the center between the two, and that allows a tool to be used in the exact center without the wire in the way. Excuse the blurry photo of my crude drawing. The jig below has two capture points for the ends of the spoke and these are allowed to slide back and forth while not being allowed to rotate. These will form the end bends, while the hand cranked tool is totally adjustable with different diameter bucks mounted in any number of holes for adjusting the distance between the bucks. So the idea is to form both curves and end bends all at once. Likely the factory had something similar and maybe even motorized or foot operated. I predict a significant waste of material getting the first one right. I may also be able to set the jig up using a correctly formed spoke. I'll try that first before wasting a lot of stock.

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Cheers,

Bill

Oh I just realized where you were going with this sketch….one move of that handle would execute both curves in the S wire. I see what you ended up coming up with in your video though. Or was that an old setup and this is an idea for another version? 

Posted

I was trying to determine how the factory formed the S curves and thought it might be a one step process. I changed my mind when I realized that the brass responds differently to the process that way. One curve at a time reduces the spring effect of the metal.

Cheers,

Bill

  • Like 2
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 12/14/2024 at 3:08 PM, Bill Dunlap said:

I was trying to determine how the factory formed the S curves and thought it might be a one step process. I changed my mind when I realized that the brass responds differently to the process that way. One curve at a time reduces the spring effect of the metal.

Cheers,

Bill

Well….i wonder if in the very early days they did them by hand sort of like you’re doing with your jig. But soon thereafter I could see them implementing a machine process for all of it. Still, each loop and each curve one at a time…I follow this page on instagram that has a lot of videos of things being made…often on what you can tel is pretty old machinery too. Like a piece of wire or rod comes out of the machine and hits a stopper and that causes it to turn and then some other widget comes into the frame and then the wire turns around that and then something else comes in and bends it down and finally something else comes in an cuts it off….im sure you understand what im describing. I dont know all the proper terms. But I bet they made them that way. 
    I started working on a better jig than my first wooden one. Taking a cue from you with the removable  bucks and what not. Thanks so much for posting that video. Really helped me wrap my head around it. 

Edited by Marc Sova
  • Like 2
Posted

It might have been Steve Rockwell that posted pics or a video a long while ago that showed how GE made their cages. Might have been on the old forum. I can’t recall. 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 11/17/2024 at 4:58 PM, Roger Borg said:

I do NOT speak from experience, as I've never done this, but I feel putting a block between back and front ring would be helpful to give you something to push against while wrapping the 270degrees. Take struts off so back ring is flush to table.

HOWEVER, it almost feels as if it's better to wrap this front cage loop first, then the rear, and then hand bend the s once you know those harder parts are done. This is counter intuitive, but me thinks a better approach. Or not...

Screenshot_20241117_175237_Chrome.jpg

River…Yeah so I ended up making Some blocks to fit in bwetween to keep the distance the same. Worked great. Made a full blown jig too to hold the whole thing in place. But….no, premaking the s wire is definitely the way to go. In this case, in a lead puck Emerson badge. I mounted them all (JB weld). Lots of this chronicled in a six part series in my YouTube channel 

 

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Posted

Very impressive.  It came out great from my perspective.  

  • Like 1
Posted

Some very good ideas in this thread. Last time I rebuilt a cage I used a door handle and vice grips wrapped in electrical tape, I need to get a proper jig 😂20210416_173455.thumb.jpg.3ff1ceca4e61564848b9df1410b106f6.jpg20210416_202459.thumb.jpg.c64c5392bd5b9b0d762075b2e81128fd.jpg20210418_093317.thumb.jpg.a339a7eb443c938016e6d8bb7e1070f5.jpg

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Martin Carena-Santiago said:

Some very good ideas in this thread. Last time I rebuilt a cage I used a door handle and vice grips wrapped in electrical tape, I need to get a proper jig 😂20210416_173455.thumb.jpg.3ff1ceca4e61564848b9df1410b106f6.jpg20210416_202459.thumb.jpg.c64c5392bd5b9b0d762075b2e81128fd.jpg20210418_093317.thumb.jpg.a339a7eb443c938016e6d8bb7e1070f5.jpg

Hah!!!! No friggin way lol. That’s awesome. It’s not so bad actually bending them by hand. Takes longer though. I started making a better jig last week. Havent used it yet. But it’s got removable bucks like I saw in Bill Dunlaps video he posted a while back. Only his is all metal and mine is wood. But I think its gonna work ok. I don’t have means for making the loop or the double loop figured out yet. That’s a little harder to make in all wood. But….making the double loop on the front ring as opposed to making it before hand worked pretty good especially with the cage jig (in bills video he makes the entire S wire, rear loop, front double loop and all) and then slips them onto the rings. I didn’t do it that way because I did not want to undo the couplers on the rings. 

IMG_1034.png

Edited by Marc Sova
Typos
  • Like 2
Posted
31 minutes ago, Marc Sova said:

Hah!!!! No friggin way lol. That’s awesome. It’s not so bad actually bending them by hand. Takes longer. I started making a better jig last week. Having used it yet. But it’s got removable bucks like I saw in bulk dunlaps video he posted a while back. Only his is all metal mine is wood. But I thinnnits gonna work ok. I don’t have means for making the loop or the double loop figured out yet. That’s a little harder to make in all wood. But….making the double loop on the front ring as opposed to making it before hand (in bills video he makes the entire S wire, rear loop, front double loop and all) and then slips them onto the rings. I didn’t do it that way because I did not want to undo the couplers on the rings. 

IMG_1034.png

Very cool, yeah the cage I did was far simpler than the Emerson cages you are tackling. Doing the notch on the front large ring and those triple loops on the S-wires do not look fun, your cage in the video is awesome! 

  • Like 1
Posted

Man! The work that went into that jig! Impressive!! Is that adjustable for other cage designs?

I make many jigs for my wood working tools... After I build one I always figure another way to do it better! Then...    off I go!! 😅🤣😂

Posted
4 minutes ago, George Durbin said:

Man! The work that went into that jig! Impressive!! Is that adjustable for other cage designs?

I make many jigs for my wood working tools... After I build one I always figure another way to do it better! Then...    off I go!! 😅🤣😂

Hah. Well….i suppose it could be. Everything is just screwed down so it’d be pretty easy to adjust. Yeah…..the divot in the center for the badge works pretty well….not so much for holding it in place though as I thought it would. Probably some small dowels or small blocks of wood would work. So yeah….ideas always get better on eve you make the first. Just like my first s wire jig I posted here. After seeing bills jig i remade it and it will work vastly better. 

Posted (edited)
On 12/25/2024 at 8:28 PM, Lane Shirey said:

It might have been Steve Rockwell that posted pics or a video a long while ago that showed how GE made their cages. Might have been on the old forum. I can’t recall. 

   I've been watching this thread with interest and admiration. I couldn't specifically recall the thread with the G.E. image, but Lane shamed me into looking it up, as my last contribution for year 2024... really the least I could do, since he did me a real square last Summer...

https://new.afcaforum.com/index.php?/topic/59575-eastwood-rod-forming-tool/#comment-502669

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Edited by Steve Rockwell
Posted

Yep, those are the pics! Thanks Steve and Russ!

Posted

Damn. Yall took my post to another level with these pics. Awesome!!!!

Posted

Ok who has one of those machines sitting in their garage and haven't gotten to getting it up and running yet? 😆

  • Like 1
Posted
8 hours ago, Trevor Andersen said:

Ok who has one of those machines sitting in their garage and haven't gotten to getting it up and running yet? 😆

Which one?  I see about eight of them!

  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 11/22/2024 at 8:10 PM, Bill Dunlap said:

I'm probably going to fab up a jig for forming S wire curves.  Most all S wires have two different radii and I think it's not just for aesthetics. With two different curves, you have an offset for the center between the two, and that allows a tool to be used in the exact center without the wire in the way. Excuse the blurry photo of my crude drawing. The jig below has two capture points for the ends of the spoke and these are allowed to slide back and forth while not being allowed to rotate. These will form the end bends, while the hand cranked tool is totally adjustable with different diameter bucks mounted in any number of holes for adjusting the distance between the bucks. So the idea is to form both curves and end bends all at once. Likely the factory had something similar and maybe even motorized or foot operated. I predict a significant waste of material getting the first one right. I may also be able to set the jig up using a correctly formed spoke. I'll try that first before wasting a lot of stock.

image.thumb.jpeg.039a2daf1a75a3f2ae0c93a8624048c1.jpeg

Cheers,

Bill

So did you get around to making this particular jig Bill? The more I think about it that’s a pretty nifty concept. 

Posted
8 hours ago, Bill Dunlap said:

I went with the simpler design and made a video of it in use.

Yeah I’ve watched it. Very insightful. And after contemplating your sketch…. Think the tool would get in the way if itself unless I’m missing something. In other words, the pivot point would need to occupy the same space as the rod. Probably could finagle it in there though. But alas….the jig you made looks to work very good. 

Posted
On 11/17/2024 at 11:10 AM, Michael Rathberger said:

Marc, on April 1, 2018 Bill Dunlap did a writeup on fabricating cages. Probably the best reference although one of the European collectors also did a writeup earlier. You can find Bills writeup searching "cage fabrication" without the quotes and using the "all words" option in the search function. I'm not good enough on the phone to insert the link. 

Michael…btw, I finally found that post if Bills. The title of it is Fan Guard Findementals. Fwiw….there are no images. I suppose because he linked pic on Flickr? Still a wealth of big though. No comments anymore and acme can’t even Folkow it because I guess it’s from the old forum?


 

 

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