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Posted

Can someone illumine me to what type of brass is typically used for cages? S wires and front rings? (Assuming the rings are a bit stiffer brass or no?). Do they all polish up the same defree of “yellow””? I see multiple types listed on McMaster Carr and elsewhere. In McMaster Carr both the “260 Ultra-formable” and the “360 Ultra-Machinable” say “cold worked” under fabrication. So what’s the layman’s difference? 
   I searched 260 and 360 and found nothing here. There’s nothing in the Restoration & Repair section (just articles about polishing). Surely there’s a post or article somewhere about types of brass?
   For the recent 21666 cage I just completed I used some pretty malleable “artistic wire” but it doesn’t even say whether it’s 260/360. It’s also on a roll which I want to get away from. And it also has a supposed tarnish resistant coating which I don’t really like, but whatever. Gorgeous stuff and easy to work with. Totlaly content to use it for s wires in the future. 
    It is perfect for the Emerson s wires as they seem to be made of pretty soft brass. In my westy tanks, those S wires/spokes seem to be made not only of thicker stock, but less soft brass…understandable since there is no front ring. 
   I’ve also ordered this 260 from K&S Metals but I haven’t used any yet. 
   I’m not yet gonna bother asking about brass sheet for wings since I’m not quite there yet but one day soon….

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Posted

It doesn't really matter, except one does not weld as easily as the other, and the other is more easily machined. The color difference is insignificant. 

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Posted

260 is less likely to break when it is formed in a tight bend. Otherwise, It doesn't really matter, except one does not weld as easily as the other, and the other is more easily machined. The color difference is insignificant. 

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Posted

Fortunately for us, the type of brass we use is widely available in the sizes we use. Ie. 260 brass, which can be formed withou breaking is nearly always found in the smaller rod diameters up to .125. In fact, you may be hard pressed to find it in larger sizes. Just as well that Westy tank cage spokes have no wraps as you would need to anneal the .125 spokes in order to form them. I avoid annealing whenever possible as it just ruins the sturctural strenght of the brass. 360 is ideal for rings as that is where strength is needed most. There are also a number of other types of brass, for example 454 or Naval brass which is ideal for making blade hubs that are peened over to trap the spider. It is both machinable and formable. If you make a hub with 360 which machines nicely, it will split when attempting to crimp it.

Cheers,

Bill

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Posted
2 hours ago, Bill Dunlap said:

Fortunately for us, the type of brass we use is widely available in the sizes we use. Ie. 260 brass, which can be formed withou breaking is nearly always found in the smaller rod diameters up to .125. In fact, you may be hard pressed to find it in larger sizes. Just as well that Westy tank cage spokes have no wraps as you would need to anneal the .125 spokes in order to form them. I avoid annealing whenever possible as it just ruins the sturctural strenght of the brass. 360 is ideal for rings as that is where strength is needed most. There are also a number of other types of brass, for example 454 or Naval brass which is ideal for making blade hubs that are peened over to trap the spider. It is both machinable and formable. If you make a hub with 360 which machines nicely, it will split when attempting to crimp it.

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks so much Bill (and Mark too!). That’s exactly the info I was looking for. So helpful. So basiclly 269 for most (Emerson) S wires and 360 for rings for the most part.  So I finished my cage…:really happy with it. But it DID heat up the brass to make the rear loop (I did all this on the rings, I did not pre make the double loop or the single rear loop). I wasn’t sure. I did a few tests on some scrap where I heated it up, even to red hot on some, and then bent/looped it, then let it cool and tried to unbend it and see if it was more prone to breaking. It didn’t seem like it was! But yeah I’m sure if I kept working it would’ve broken more easily than the I heated stuff. 
    I made a job to hold everything steady so I wasn’t tugging on it one way or the other and it worked pretty darned nice. Also reworking my s wire jig to have removable bucks…albeit out of wood since my metal working abilities are limited)

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Posted

I am a metallurgist and machinist by trade. You must be aware of one thing; the American National Standards Institute... ANSI... was not founded until 1918. For fans made prior to this date, and particularly, prior to 1910, alloy accuracy and precision to the standards that we are now familiar with generally did not exist, outside of scientific instruments and laboratory settings.

I have been working on a historic alloy survey to get a better picture of metal manufacturing at the time. This will be new information that does not exist even in any period literature. You have to realize that the periodic table was a lot smaller in 1890 than it was in 1990 and these metals and alloys being manufactured contained yet unknown elements. Likewise, the purity of the metal was relatively poor in that it might contain four or five tramp elements in addition to the intentional elements of the alloy itself.

With advanced modern equipment like x-ray spectroscopy, this information can be effortlessly uncovered, which is my weapon of choice in this endeavor.

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