How to safely open up this Tank motor?

[Jay Buchholz]

Today's project is supposed to be disassembling this tank motor for headwire replacement.

I'm struggling with a few things: The screws that run the length of the motor housing don't want to come out. Also, I'm not exactly sure where this casing is supposed to open up?  Advice is welcomed for how to safely accomplish this.

Finally, take a look at the switch; there's no speed coil and the contacts look like they are bridged with a piece of copper. The model is 81621 and I believe it's supposed to be a three speed model. My electrical knowledge is limited; I'm guessing I need to find a proper speed coil but do I need to do anything with that copper that's brushing the contacts?

Thank you!

[Anthony Lindsey]

2 speeds are Commom on tanks.

[Dave McManaman]

If memory serves me right from the Westy tanks I’ve disassembled, the front bell comes off.  Might take a fine putty knife on the bottom lip and see if you can pry it a bit the work you’re way around. Leaving the center and back of motor housing as one. The strip connecting two of the contacts keeps it two speeds. I’ll grab some disassembly pics and post up for you. 

EDIT: Memory is mistaken. It’s the back end that comes off. Centrifugal switch is up front. 
 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Dave McManaman
Correction and photos added

[Jay Buchholz]

2 hours ago, Anthony Lindsey said:

2 speeds are Commom on tanks.

Admittedly my knowledge around electricity is limited. If there's an absence of a speed coil coupled with a copper strip jumping the three contracts together, wouldn't that have the effect of making this a single speed fan? 

[Thomas Peters]

10th photograph shows a switch plate, with what appears to be a coil.

[Jay Buchholz]

59 minutes ago, Thomas Peters said:

10th photograph shows a switch plate, with what appears to be a coil.

Correct, but that fan belongs to Dave McManaman. 😂

My switch in the first post of this thread. 

[Jay Buchholz]

Finally got the stator out using four paint cans to hold just the housing while tapping the screws with a punch...

[Dave McManaman]

Good deal. Did you free the back end of the centrifugal switch first? I presume so or it would have held it up. As far as a coil for the switch plate, you might post on the "want to buy" section but if that doesn't work, or just want to try and get something asap, I'd call Chad's folks at https://antiquefanparts.com/ I didn't see that they had any showing up online but what shows online is just a portion and I've had great luck calling or emailing them at their contact points. My guess is they'll have one in stock and can get it out the door to you in quick order.

By the way, the finish on the motor casing looks great and will shine up beautifully. Hoping the base is the same. Looking forward to seeing you get yours up and running. These Westinghouse tanks are a good fan to work on compared with the press fit tin cans that followed. I think they have more of a "presence" when done too.

Here's the first tank I did, almost entirely preserved. Had to make a "s" wire for the cage so I ended up lightly polishing the cage/blade to get about the same finish. It's since developed a beautiful patina.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Dave McManaman

[Dave McManaman]

Quick follow-up and I'll shut up. When it comes to head wire, I'm a huge fan of Tony Clayton's work. He makes it himself and the number of strands in the wire is very high compared with what you'll get thru online retail stores. Nothing against others, I use them a lot as well. But when I'm working on a fan that I really want to do the best possible on, I contact him. This isn't a sales attempt so I won't put his contact info here but pm me if interested and I'll pass on his numbers. Oh, and I don't know if he's still able to make it but he made me a perfect match for what I believe originally was the color head wire on Westy tanks, at least on the Style 60677. A very bright green if you can believe it. See the picture, below, of the wire that was on the fan when I first disassembled it. You can see the matching wire poking out a bit in one of the pics of my fan after I finished it. For some history, this fan was found built-in behind a wall that was made when an old house was first getting built-in closets. It was sitting on a step stool, covered in decades of dust. I'll bet someone was looking for the stool and ladder when they got done with their project. A fun little history. 

 

[Jay Buchholz]

You know what, I actually reached out to Tony and he indicated he wasn't taking new orders at the moment as he was working through a backlog. He also mentioned he can't get the green tank thread anymore due to a vendor issue. So yeah, I would have loved to order from him but after our email correspondence I wound up ordering from a different supplier. But thank you for all your guidance and your fan looks great! I hope to get mine in that condition.

 

[Steve Stephens]

Page from a 1911 Westinghouse catalog showing the catalog numbers for two and three speed Westy tanks.   In the photos below I have included photos of a ONE speed tank (16") from c.1905, a common two speed tank, and the later and uncommon three speed tanks.   First switch photo is a St,le 80421 two speed switch and similar to all two speed tanks.  Second switch photo is a 16" Style 60679 single speed tank which I think was used for a short time on the 16" early tank, maybe to help it start by eliminating a slower speed setting.  The copper bridging is what turned a standard tank switch into one with fewer than three speeds (and maybe something else different also?).  Three speed tank fans switches did not have the copper bridging.

[Tom Morel]

Another easy way to tell the 3 speed tanks - they are 112-115 volt, 83239 for the 12" and 83241 for the 16".

[Russ Huber]

19 minutes ago, Tom Morel said:

Another easy way to tell the 3 speed tanks - they are 112-115 volt, 83239 for the 12" and 83241 for the 16".

 

[Russ Huber]

13 hours ago, Jay Buchholz said:

Take a look at the switch; there's no speed coil

The coil is a single wind of magnet wire wound for between 4 to 5 ohms. You need a small stack of roughly 21 Westinghouse laminations. You then simply remove the one copper speed bridge. 

Many of the later stamp steel 12" and 16" coil stack laminations are near identical to the earlier tank laminations. You can rob from Peter to pay Paul. 

One just has to be careful not to exceed the single coil wind ohms to high which will slow the fan down where the centrifugal switch kicks in and stays engaged. It will burn out the start winding. I think 4 to 5 ohms is a safe zone for the second speed.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Jay Buchholz]

@Russ Huberthat is an interesting proposition! I do have a 16" stamped steel Westy that is in pretty rough shape. I'll have to see about the speed coil in it... For now I'm just gonna get that headwire soldered on and reassemble this beauty but when that's done I'll reach out to you for guidance if that's okay?

[Russ Huber]

5 hours ago, Jay Buchholz said:

@Russ Huberthat is an interesting proposition! I do have a 16" stamped steel Westy that is in pretty rough shape. I'll have to see about the speed coil in it... For now I'm just gonna get that headwire soldered on and reassemble this beauty but when that's done I'll reach out to you for guidance if that's okay?

I can send you the laminations. You would need someone or yourself to wind the coil. It is more intimidating than hard to do. A single wind coil like this could be done by hand over a little block of wood of correct dimensions.