29646 emerson brass badge restoration

[James Gaspard]

My ID plate and the pyramid badge on the cage need to have the black paint reapplied before clear coating? The pyramid badge looks like it will be VERY DIFFICULT to airbrush, do the brass letters and pyramid all need to be scraped off to clear coat? I see folks claiming they've done full restorations the the badge and motor plate "which is very involved", but I can't find anything that shows that process? 

[Stan Adams]

I’m sure others have better ways, but this is how I do it. Polish the brass & so the whole badge shines. Then paint the badge with a flat black. Use a very small tool to get the paint off the raised brass. Then paint the entire badge with clear lacquer.

[James Gaspard]

I was guessing this would be a method? Spray paint the badge with a flat black paint, is this because flat is softer? Then with a very small tool (a knife or chisel edge) to scrape the raised letters and features?

[Russ Huber]

"I need to understand how to test resistance in stator after hooking the new head wire to it? I don't know how to multi meter test the 3 wires (unmarked) coming off the stator to find which is low, med, high? Please understand I'm new to fan restoration?" ~ James Gaspard

Jim, you started 3 separate threads for the same 29646 fan asking multiple questions. You have stated you are a step one novice with antique/vintage fan restoration. You have committed no crimes against humanity, but I get the distinct impression you could use some hands-on help. Some of us are more predisposed to mechanical/electrical reasoning. If you're not, this certainly doesn't make you defective by any means. Maybe there is a member near you that can give you some guidance, or a friend or acquaintance who has good mechanical/electrical reasoning to help you out. Just trying to offer guidance to get you toward your goal rather than frustration.

[James Gaspard]

Hi Russ, You have caught my act? I'm well versed in collecting but this fan came to me when my brother passed 3 week ago and I'm determined to restore as a working fan to display in his memory. What I'm hung on is hooking the new headwire to the 3 wires on the stator but I'm not sure how to check the resistance to find 1st, 2nd, & 3rd speeds in the 3 wires? I do understand where those speeds hook to the speed switch. If I set meter to ohms and touch red lead to one of the 3 wires from stator, what do I touch the black test lead to? This is where I'm stumped?

[Daniel Herczeg]

If the switch only had three wires leading to it, it's a power wire and two speeds. While I am not familiar with this model of desk fan, It should be easy to identify high and low by seeing which wire has a resistor and which doesn't.

[Mark Olson]

9 hours ago, Daniel Herczeg said:

If the switch only had three wires leading to it, it's a power wire and two speeds. While I am not familiar with this model of desk fan, It should be easy to identify high and low by seeing which wire has a resistor and which doesn't.

 

This is not correct for motors with start windings.

[Chris Campbell]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:46 AM, James Gaspard said:

My ID plate and the pyramid badge on the cage need to have the black paint reapplied before clear coating? The pyramid badge looks like it will be VERY DIFFICULT to airbrush, do the brass letters and pyramid all need to be scraped off to clear coat? I see folks claiming they've done full restorations the the badge and motor plate "which is very involved", but I can't find anything that shows that process? 

As Stan mentioned in second post is how it is done. Different approaches but clean and polish the brass high points. 
 

I then airbrush the black areas. Never scrape or pick away paint however use 1000-2000 grit sandpaper with soapy water to knock paint off high areas. Any black areas which get messed up can be touched up with airbrush vs starting from scratch.

Sanding marks are then hand polished with old cotton shirt and car polish.

Badge/tags cleaned under hot water and toilet bowl cleaner. Then cleared.

Generally use flat black enamel paint from Testors or automotive base paint

 

 

[Chris Campbell]

10 hours ago, James Gaspard said:

Hi Russ, You have caught my act? I'm well versed in collecting but this fan came to me when my brother passed 3 week ago and I'm determined to restore as a working fan to display in his memory. What I'm hung on is hooking the new headwire to the 3 wires on the stator but I'm not sure how to check the resistance to find 1st, 2nd, & 3rd speeds in the 3 wires? I do understand where those speeds hook to the speed switch. “””””If I set meter to ohms and touch red lead to one of the 3 wires from stator, what do I touch the black test lead to? This is where I'm stumped?

Label wires A,B,C

Make pairs:

A B

A C

B C

Resistance will be measured between two wires in each pair.

Use Toms diagram provided in other post to identify wires

Edited March 11 by Chris Campbell

[David Kilnapp]

I can confirm the use of flat black Automotive primer as the preferred paint for badges and motor tags. I have found that the best clear lacquer is Eastwood Diamond Clear which won't cause the nasty orange peel and will darken up the flat black to a deep black. It wasn't available for a long time due to issues with the EPA about one of its components. The company must have reached an agreement with the regulator because it is available now. Good stuff!

This is a good automotive primer.

Here is Eastwood clear gloss.

[Darwin Costello]

Thank you everyone for all the information on redoing a badge,  all very welcome info. 

[Trevor Andersen]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:46 AM, James Gaspard said:

My ID plate and the pyramid badge on the cage need to have the black paint reapplied before clear coating? The pyramid badge looks like it will be VERY DIFFICULT to airbrush, do the brass letters and pyramid all need to be scraped off to clear coat? I see folks claiming they've done full restorations the the badge and motor plate "which is very involved", but I can't find anything that shows that process? 

It's hard to give a tutorial for something requiring dexterity and patience. Like when my kindergarten teacher would tell me to only color between the lines. Some badges can be sprayed and the high points sanded but this really only works on more simple designs and risks wearing down the embossing before you can get the painting right. I brush on water based acrylic urethane airbrush paint. I remove paint from embossing with an xacto knife and fine hobby q-tips dipped in denatured alcohol. Then I put down a bleed check layer and clear coat of choice over that. 

That's the method I used for this. 

[Darwin Costello]

The results of that plate are impressive.  How did your fan turn out after allllll that work on the plate? Looks like at true labor of love.   

[Stan Adams]

James, Jay Bernard over in Thibodaux can help you of you need him

[Trevor Andersen]

5 hours ago, Darwin Costello said:

The results of that plate are impressive.  How did your fan turn out after allllll that work on the plate? Looks like at true labor of love.   

I am a glutton for punishment and did this one for another member just to see if I could. It was an old hat polisher turned into a fan. 

[James Gaspard]

Thibodaux, I'm wondering if he has a parted 29646 listed on Ebay? Thanks Stan!

[Jim Roadt]

On 3/11/2024 at 6:21 PM, Stan Adams said:

James, Jay Bernard over in Thibodaux can help you of you need him

[Marc Sova]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:50 PM, David Kilnapp said:

I can confirm the use of flat black Automotive primer as the preferred paint for badges and motor tags. I have found that the best clear lacquer is Eastwood Diamond Clear which won't cause the nasty orange peel and will darken up the flat black to a deep black. It wasn't available for a long time due to issues with the EPA about one of its components. The company must have reached an agreement with the regulator because it is available now. Good stuff!

This is a good automotive primer.

Here is Eastwood clear gloss.

This is great info. I’ve not attempted to redo a badge yet. So flat black as opposed to something more durable like a satin because why? It is easier to work with I suppose in terms of removing from the high parts? And is it always black?….seems like some of the old Emerson’s have a what looks a bit more brown in the badges. Or am I wrong on that? 

[Marc Sova]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:16 AM, Chris Campbell said:

As Stan mentioned in second post is how it is done. Different approaches but clean and polish the brass high points. 
 

I then airbrush the black areas. Never scrape or pick away paint however use 1000-2000 grit sandpaper with soapy water to knock paint off high areas. Any black areas which get messed up can be touched up with airbrush vs starting from scratch.

Sanding marks are then hand polished with old cotton shirt and car polish.

Badge/tags cleaned under hot water and toilet bowl cleaner. Then cleared.

Generally use flat black enamel paint from Testors or automotive base paint

 

 

Great work Chris. So…cleaned under hot water and toilet bowl cleaner when?…before painting black? Or after you paint and sand with 1000-2000 grit? I know of that method for cleaning brass but you listed it after detailing g the paint/sanding part. Thanks. 

[David Kilnapp]

I have found that the diamond clear really brings out the rich deep black when one uses flat black. Also, primer doesn't "wrinkle" or get orange peel when you spray it with diamond clear. Something in the primer makes that work.

Edited March 17 by David Kilnapp

[Chris Campbell]

1 hour ago, Marc Sova said:

Great work Chris. So…cleaned under hot water and toilet bowl cleaner when?…before painting black? Or after you paint and sand with 1000-2000 grit? I know of that method for cleaning brass but you listed it after detailing g the paint/sanding part. Thanks. 

I do initially clean with toilet bowl cleaner and again before clearing. Purpose of initially cleaning is to knock off any film over past 100 years that could allow paint from adhering in places. Paint that lifts when wet sanding is no fun. 

Hot water and toilet bowl cleaner used again once finished to strip off any polish and grit on painted fields before clearing.

I never use anything aerosol. Purpose of airbrush is to have full control of fluid flow and anything aerosol never  compares.

Start by cleaning as above with toilet bowl cleaner. Sometimes scrubbed with toothbrush if crusty. Rinse with hot water for clean surface.

Airbrush base color or flat enamel. Enamel is harder vs acrylic or mystery paints found in aerosols.

Remove paint from high brass areas with small pieces of 1000 grit sand paper wet sanded with soap water. Soapy water allows sand paper to glide easily. Any areas of paint removed unintentionally are spot touched up with airbrush. This could be as small as 1/8” area vs starting over again. Once high areas knocked down with 1000 grit then use 1500 and 2000 to remove sanding marks. After that a non solvent based polish and cotton tshirt. 

The tag or badge will have grit and polish residue. To clean use toilet bowl cleaner / hot water again.

Then clear. When I use lacquer will do a light dusting then additional dustings with airbrush until satisfied. This will lock the surface and prevent wrinkling of paint or bleeding when using light coats.

If using urethane generally just one heavy coat.

Airbrushes provide control vs anything you will ever find in a can. The idea is to have the thinnest layers of paint that are solid enough to block brass surface and thin enough to easily be removed where needed. Easily touched up when needed. Airbrushes will give you adjustable 1/8” through 1” paint pattern radius.

This badge is white primer, white base, pearl layer and then urethane. 4 layers of painted material. It is perfect and took multiple attempts.

I also use an airbrush opened up to 1” pattern to lacquer brass blades. Low air pressure does not kick dust into wet lacquer and avoids orange peel both of which work against mirrored brass.

 

 

 

[Marc Sova]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:28 AM, Chris Campbell said:

I do initially clean with toilet bowl cleaner and again before clearing. Purpose of initially cleaning is to knock off any film over past 100 years that could allow paint from adhering in places. Paint that lifts when wet sanding is no fun. 

Hot water and toilet bowl cleaner used again once finished to strip off any polish and grit on painted fields before clearing.

I never use anything aerosol. Purpose of airbrush is to have full control of fluid flow and anything aerosol never  compares.

Start by cleaning as above with toilet bowl cleaner. Sometimes scrubbed with toothbrush if crusty. Rinse with hot water for clean surface.

Airbrush base color or flat enamel. Enamel is harder vs acrylic or mystery paints found in aerosols.

Remove paint from high brass areas with small pieces of 1000 grit sand paper wet sanded with soap water. Soapy water allows sand paper to glide easily. Any areas of paint removed unintentionally are spot touched up with airbrush. This could be as small as 1/8” area vs starting over again. Once high areas knocked down with 1000 grit then use 1500 and 2000 to remove sanding marks. After that a non solvent based polish and cotton tshirt. 

The tag or badge will have grit and polish residue. To clean use toilet bowl cleaner / hot water again.

Then clear. When I use lacquer will do a light dusting then additional dustings with airbrush until satisfied. This will lock the surface and prevent wrinkling of paint or bleeding when using light coats.

If using urethane generally just one heavy coat.

Airbrushes provide control vs anything you will ever find in a can. The idea is to have the thinnest layers of paint that are solid enough to block brass surface and thin enough to easily be removed where needed. Easily touched up when needed. Airbrushes will give you adjustable 1/8” through 1” paint pattern radius.

This badge is white primer, white base, pearl layer and then urethane. 4 layers of painted material. It is perfect and took multiple attempts.

I also use an airbrush opened up to 1” pattern to lacquer brass blades. Low air pressure does not kick dust into wet lacquer and avoids orange peel both of which work against mirrored brass.

 

 

 

Awesome thanks. That looks amazing. Yeah im no stranger to the airbrush. First job was airbrushing tshirts when I was 15. Done noseart on modern military jets, murals, stock cars. You name it lol. 55 now. Don’t use it that much these days but it’s like riding a bike.