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Fan running too dry too fast


Greg Calmly
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please help!

 

I have a 1987 Lakewood P-223/M and I oiled a few times, and it seems to keep running dry (within like a 2 week span). The fan is almost never ran (I only use it for an hour or 2 on the weekends because its at a relatives house and they dont use it because I take the knob off so they cant) It averages ~ 2.1 on high which seems correct. The motor sticker has fallen off so i dont know the real amperage, but I assume 2.1 is around there. on medium it drops to 1.1 I hope this is normal, let me know what you all think. I saved this fan from a thrift store and it is in poor condition but it runs strong. the oil wicks around the bearings are mostly gone, but when that fan is oiled it seems okay. Let me know what you think.

Thanks! ❤️

 

image.thumb.jpeg.d42a14a26582734682171bfe774f812f.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 8 months later...

That sounds like a personal problem to me! 🤣

But Wait, don't you want your fan running "dry" and fast? Because if the fan was running wet and slow then I would suspect there was a moisture issue in your house (or perhaps you were running your fan out in the rain) which might be a bit of a "shocking" experience for you. 😜

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GREG WHEN YOU SAY RUNNING DRY DO YOU MEAN THE MED AND LOW SPEEDS SLOW DOWN?  OR IT TAKES A FEW MINUTES EVEN TO COME UP TO FULL SPEED AFTER A FEW DAYS REST? THOSE WERE THE END REALLY OF THE "GOOD" FANS WITH METAL MOTORS AND OIL SPOUTS. IT IS A FAIR FAN BUT IT LOOKS DECENT SHAPE IN THE PHOTOS. WHAT KIND OF OIL ARE YOU USING? WHEN I HAVE A GUMMED UP MOTOR SOMETIMES THE BUSHINGS CAN ABSORB A POOR OIL (OR WORSE SILICONE) AND CAN GET GUMMED UP EVERY TIME YOU TURN IT OFF AND THE BUSHING COOLS. THE ORIGINAL VORNADO PROPELLOR FANS DID THIS A LOT.  I BELIEVE THE MOTOR YOU HAVE HERE HAS A REAR MOTOR CAP WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE BACK OF THE  SHAFT (NOT ENCLOSED) LIKE A MANNING BOWMAN ESKIMO FAN.TRY A FEW DROPS OF MARVEL MYSTERY OIL IN THE BACK BUSHING AND FRONT BUSHING WHERE THE SHAFT COMES OUT. REPEAT SEVERAL TIMES. TO "CLEAN" THE GOO AND FRANKLY MELT IT AND WIPE IT OUT AFTER EACH TEST.  BEING IT ISNT A NEW FAN TO THE FAMILY YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL OWNERS USED FOR OIL(IF ANYTHING AT ALL ) YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO REFRESH THE ABILITY OF THE BRONZE TO ABSORB GOOD LUBRICATING OIL BY CLEANING OUT THE GUNK FIRST

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Yeah its got gummy junk in the wicks and thats what slows it down like you mentioned. I use zoomspout and 3 in 1 blue can. I tried cleaning all old oil out but it just stays gummy.

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I also cant find that Marvel Mystery Oil anywhere. Is there any other way to clean the wicks out?

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TRY YOUR AUTO PARTS STORE ...WE HAVE IT ON THE SHELF IN MINE WHERE I WORK PART TIME ...YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT WILL SOFTEN THE GUNK AND THEN TRY TO GET IT TO TURN BACK IN TO LIQUID 

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I found the oil today so heres what I did:

Afterwards, I noticed the fan has a longer spindown but runs at about the same. (I also want a step by step process for degreasing the fan with this oil)

I put the oil into the wicks from the inside twice, wiping them down after each dousing.

When I felt that it was good, I put zoomspout and put the motor together and blades and tested it. I ran out of time so I only rinsed with the mystery oil twice.

The rotor was cleaned in the sink with the washers and dried. 

 

Another note, the wicks are new because when I got the fan the wicks were gone. (And yes they hold onto the oil) This means I wont wash the motor with water so I dont damage them.

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WELL IF THE SPIN DOWN IS BETTER THEN YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE. ANY STEP BY STEP IS DEPENDENT ON THE DESIGN OF THE FAN ITSELF . THE BEST THING TO DO UPON DIS ASSEMBLY IS TO WIPE THE SHAFT WITH MM-OIL AND WATCH AS IT CLEANS UP (HOPEFULLY) . USING A SMALL BRUSH (MAYBE A PERCOLATOR TUBE CLEANING BRUSH) TO CLEAN OUT THE BUSHING I WOULD DIP INTO THE MM-OIL AND BRUSH THROUGH AND THEN TAKE A RAG OR TOWEL TWISTED IN TO A TAPERED CLOTH YOU CAN RUN THROUGH THE BUSHING  TO WIPE THE OLD GOOK OUT . ONCE CLEANED I WOULD PUT A FILM OF GOOD OIL ON THE SHAFT AND SLIDE IT BACK IN ...I WAS HUNTING FOR A BLADE IN MY PILE OF PROJECTS IN THE BASEMENT AND I CAME ACROSS A FAN LIKE YOURS AND IT TOO HAS A VERY POKEY LOW AND MEDIUM SPEED ..MAYBE THAT WAS THEY WAY THEY WERE HMMMM. ANYWAY IF YOUR SPIN DOWN IS LONGER THEN YOU ARE DOING A GOOD JOB ... THERE ISNT MUCH WEIGHT TO THOSE BLADES SO PSIN DOWN ISNT LIKE A METAL BLADE. YOU MAY HAVE DONE ALL THAT YOU CAN ..... 

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Well heres what happened today.

I did the same thing again and the fan seems alot better. I just dont know how long the degreasing lasts. 

 

HOWEVER:

My S-223 that was running kind of hot that I made a post on a few days ago, I decided to try the marvel on it and see what happens.

I did the same procedure as on the P-223/M and I got negative results.

The marvel ending up pulling a bunch of dark liquids which I assume is old factory oil. When I put the motor together, the shaft turned stiff and the spindown is terrible.

Keep in mind, I had this and the /M side by side so I didnt make any mistakes. It was the same steps for both fans.

Another note, my S-223 went from the 139 F to around 129 F (it got 129 with the stiff shaft) 

 

I have no clue whats going on but I would appreciate some insight thanks.

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Caught this post late.  Degreasing for me means soaking in a bottle of 85 gas...  nothing legal seems to clean well anymore being CA compliant.

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Oh yea, also my preferred lube is also either Marvel or Royal Purple 15W40.  The Marvel is kinda light though so usually use it on newer motors with light load.  I am also planning to experiment with Redline gear oil for its supposedly lower friction claims.  I love Redline in my manual trans and the viscosity is pretty light more like 20-30W even though it is rated at 75W

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WHEN YOU PUT A FAN MOTOR OF THIS TYPE BACK TOGETHER AND IT IS STIFF AND TIGHT, TAKE A SCREWDRIVER HANDLE OR VERY SMALL HAMMER AND TAP AROUND THE ESDGES OF THE MOTOR ENDS TO "ALIGN" THINGS BACK UP AGAIN...USUALLY WORKS LIKE A CHARM TO MAKE SPINNING LOOSE AGAIN 

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Yeah I knew that. I did that and even took the motor apart and risked by using hot water to degrease it. 

Doesnt matter anyway. After the water it finally seemed better except the fan started buzzing again and get hotter than before. (And yes the motor was bone dry from water)

So now it has to be re-wound and I have 0 clue how much thats gonna cost.

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Anyways back to the P-223/M (The brown one)

I ran the fan earlier today to dry my shoes which took a few hours

When I turned the fan off, after literally 5 seconds dark brown oil emerged at a running speed dripping out of the motor.

This happened with my S-23 which never had any oil issues.

 

Do you have an idea why this happened? I wonder if the oil was re-activated after running awhile and warmed up.

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probably as the bushing warmed the oil expanded and as the shaft spun it kept it on the shaft (like cotton candy in a machine) and whe you turned it off the excess came out as it was thinned and didnt have anything to hang on to .... just wipe it off and it will settle down to the right amount in there 

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  • 3 weeks later...

It did it again yesterday.. And It stuck REALLY bad.. Is there a way to stop this?

Also the spindown started getting worse again 🙄

heres a photo

 

image.thumb.jpeg.5932de8c1ab23a55ed8c5076de16d240.jpeg

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i will tell you i had a totally stuck 1958 GE  that i had soaking with regular oil and marvel mystery oil for a solid month before it FINALLY freed up  and now it is smooth as butter. from low speed my spin down was 44 seconds the day i re assembled it........... i would keep running the marvel mystery oil in it and just keep at it... until the goo finally gets dissolved . the open bushing/shaft motors can get worse gunk in them than a closed end motor cap... 

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  • 1 month later...

If it siezes, I find a lot of the time the metal actually friction welded together, I use Brasso as a cleaner to free up binding metals.  Drip some brasso instead of oil and work the  bearing around till it feels nice again.  I did this with clock pivots, stuck radio shafts, automotive parts, etc.  I am guessong the oil isnt supposed to be brown, probably a real good dosassembly and cleaning is in order.

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