Peerless Spin / Crank / Kick Start Cage?? (OK so turns out it is early R&M Standard ca. 1902-1904)

[Curt Davis]

Breadcrumb notes from my dad said this was a cage for a Peerless Spin Start fan.

But none of the examples in the old AFCA gallery have these unusual brass struts at 12 / 3/ 6 / 9 o'clock (in the first pic below Steve!) with the thicker / reinforced connections to both the front and rear cage guard.

Anyone have any ideas what fan this cage is for?  It looks like Peerless but I can't find any examples with the cage so far ....

Diameter is ~13" and depth is ~3" so this would be for a 12" fan.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Curt Davis

[Steve Rockwell]

     Keep 'em coming, Curt.....

 

struts at 12 / 3/ 6 / 9 o'clock   or 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, 10:30

 

    Not Paragon...

 

 

     Not Lundell...

 

 

 

      But.....

Edited March 28, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Curt Davis]

The "But" is similar but not exactly the same @Steve Rockwell 

So what is that from?

[Steve Rockwell]

     I give...   That's the best I've got.

 

 

     Maybe you can show the rear view, provide another clue.....

[Curt Davis]

[Curt Davis]

8 minutes ago, Steve Rockwell said:

     I give...   That's the best I've got.

 

 

     Maybe you can show the rear view, provide another clue.....

 

@Steve Rockwell  Two more pics above.  The last zoomed in pic above looks correct.   What is that from?

 

[Steve Rockwell]

     Nobody else is playing?

 

   Here's my thought (none show in the Gallery)........

 

 

 

 

 

     Quoting Tim Marks who in part is quoting Darryl Hudson.....

     and, if I'm correct, by their struts and their brackets. By 1906 they were down to only three struts no longer face-mounted.....

Edited March 29, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Russ Huber]

3 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said:

     Nobody else is playing?

     

Hey, it's your parade. 🙂  The strut placement doesn't fit. But, if Curt turns the guard repositioning the struts, it fits. 🙂

Edited March 29, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

Eck dropped the G&W agency 1903-04 and reinstated the agency 1905.  It was known, and with little doubt, tagged as the Eck fan motor 03-04. 1903 electrical trade clearly states the fans would be known as the "Eck Fan Motor". G&W agency held the rights to the "Hurricane" trademark.

[Russ Huber]

It is the strangest thing, not one soul out there has posted a complete correct 1902-03 ornate handle R&M desk & bracket fan motor.

[Curt Davis]

@Steve Rockwell  Thanks very much.  I think you nailed it.  And yes a little later R&M had 3 struts on the side as shown below (courtesy of @Steve Stephens)

We actually sold the fan below (no cage) a few weeks ago on Ebay

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/234926361091?hash=item36b2b3ca03%3Ag%3ALOwAAOSwzFlkCbJw&nma=true&si=lQ8GRQbSsOqceAooSc2itpqo%2FhA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I had a momentory heart attack (thanks for that) that this cage belonged to the R&M fan we just sold.  But after reviewing photos the fan we sold on Ebay indeed has 3 holes (one on top, two on side) for struts like shown in the 1905 Western Electrician article.  And the cage below does not have the heavily reinforced cast brass pieces connecting the front and rear cage guards and the struts.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Curt Davis

[Curt Davis]

16 minutes ago, Russ Huber said:

It is the strangest thing, not one soul out there has posted a complete correct 1902-03 ornate handle R&M desk & bracket fan motor.

Just for you @Russ Huber 

These just landed in my inbox.  This is NOT part of the JLD collection.

 

[Russ Huber]

1 hour ago, Curt Davis said:

Just for you @Russ Huber 

These just landed in my inbox.  This is NOT part of the JLD collection.

 

Peerless Spin / Crank / Kick Start Cage?? (OK so turns out it is early R&M Standard ca. 1903/1904)

 

1902-03.  Message Stefan thanks for sharing. I dig the R&M blade wing mounting screws. I wonder if they had thread locker back then? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Russ Huber

[John Trier]

Variations of that cage are seen on the Sprague Lundell fan, and the Dayton Spin start.  I think it’s an outsourced cage made to specifications.   There’s that advertisement of the guy standing on this cage, advertising it’s strength.  The add is for a cage not a fan.  

[Russ Huber]

14 minutes ago, John Trier said:

Variations of that cage are seen on the Sprague Lundell fan, and the Dayton Spin start.  I think it’s an outsourced cage made to specifications.   There’s that advertisement of the guy standing on this cage, advertising it’s strength.  The add is for a cage not a fan.  

Lundell started the beefy guard movement, but there is proof in 95 electrical trade IC was making their own fan guards. Sprague and IC merged in 97 and by 98 Lundell filed patent for a new fan motor design with the beefy guard. It hit the market in 99. GI Paragon beefed their guard for the 00 season, etc.

[Russ Huber]

3 hours ago, Curt Davis said:

@Steve Rockwell  Thanks very much.  I think you nailed it.  And yes a little later R&M had 3 struts on the side as shown below (courtesy of @Steve Stephens)

We actually sold the fan below (no cage) a few weeks ago on Ebay

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/234926361091?hash=item36b2b3ca03%3Ag%3ALOwAAOSwzFlkCbJw&nma=true&si=lQ8GRQbSsOqceAooSc2itpqo%2FhA%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

 

 

 

 

1498386443364652579-00862216 (storage.googleapis.com)

Edited March 29, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Steve Rockwell]

 

                                    And how many first gen Robbins & Myers have you seen?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Steve Stephens]

Here is a Dayton "spin start" guard.

[Steve Rockwell]

     Just for clear understanding, Russ...

        The text gets a bit jumpy through this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

     With "1902-03":   

 

   Are you correcting Curt's '03-'04 summation?

 

   Are you attributing '02-'03 production to the fan in those photos?

 

   I've seen nothing yet to argue against a possible '04 year of production for the guard which started this thread.   Have you?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Russ Huber]

3 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said:

     Just for clear understanding, Russ...

        The text gets a bit jumpy through this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

     With "1902-03":   

 

   Are you correcting Curt's '03-'04 summation?

 

   Are you attributing '02-'03 production to the fan in those photos?

 

   I've seen nothing yet to argue against a possible '04 year of production for the guard which started this thread.   Have you?

Yes, I corrected his 03-04 dating to 02-03 based on focus on the ornate handle model. This is based on R&M's dated electrical trade fan motor offerings. The desk and bracket models offered in 04 are a departure from the ornate handle model seen in 02-03 electrical trade. 

Based on the 04 electrical trade image, and taking a closer look at it, I can't contest the possibility of a 12" pop guard.  My bad, the dating would be 02-04 (+?)

 

[Russ Huber]

edit.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Steve Rockwell]

     The changes definitely came through in 1905, so until we know better let's use the 1902-1904 dating... For that matter, the guard seems to be consistent with the oscillating fan as well in that period...

   The R & M image I zoomed in the 2nd Post is the same pic you used in the 8th Post. When Curt didn't like the answer, I explored deeper into the subject and came up with the possible 1904 oscillator; my whole point in posting at all was to register the guard as, seemingly, Robbins & Myers, regardless of model or year, and that was the goal in the first place.

   So we've narrowed the possibilities, and I've learned some stuff of which I'd otherwise be ignorant... nice.

          It would be great to see more photos of these super-early R & Ms.....

Edited March 30, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Russ Huber]

12 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said:

     

          It would be great to see more photos of these super-early R & Ms.....

Jim Kovar enhanced electrical trade images of the 99-01 R&M Searchlight desk & bracket.  The first 4 images date 99, the last image with reinforced guard date 01 electrical trade.

[John Trier]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:05 PM, Russ Huber said:

Lundell started the beefy guard movement, but there is proof in 95 electrical trade IC was making their own fan guards. Sprague and IC merged in 97 and by 98 Lundell filed patent for a new fan motor design with the beefy guard. It hit the market in 99. GI Paragon beefed their guard for the 00 season, etc.

 

In the world of manufacturing or production, companies often take credit for something they don't do.  A mill work company I work with makes curved window trim (not easy to do).  They boast about their abilities and their curved product, but in reality all they are is a middle man.   In Iowa there's a guy in a small town I know where, that's all he does is produce curved wood trim.   

This cage appearing on a Paragon, Dayton spin start, Interior Conduit, Sprague and Robbins and Meyers makes me conclude that it's outsourced by an unknown and never to be known sub contractor.  Who ever produced this cage was able to market it to several companies and he should be proud of his work. 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by John Trier