1920s or 1930s vintage GE Ceiling fan aquired

[Chris Jacobsen]

1 hour ago, Levi Mevis said:

I've got the old rotted wires replaced on the motor and the speed coil on my fan but now I need to figure out how to wire the fan up so I can test it to see if it works or not, anyone have a proper wiring diagram for the GE type AH ceiling fan, that includes the speed coil?

Should just be able to energize the stator coils directly, probably 2 wires of typical, would be like running on high speed.  Do the speed coil after that to save complication possible speed coil problems.

[Levi Mevis]

5 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Should just be able to energize the stator coils directly, probably 2 wires of typical, would be like running on high speed.  Do the speed coil after that to save complication possible speed coil problems.

I measured the speed coil and here's the resistance readings I get off of the leads:

1 & 2: 2.2Ω

2 & 3: 1.1Ω

1 & 3: 2.6Ω

Then theres the 4th wire which I'm assuming is the line in wire that is your power going to the speed coil, now I'm assuming that a ceiling fan speed coil assembly would wire up similar to how a speed coil assembly on a table fan would wire up, if so, then that would mean there should be three wires going to the snap-switch/speed control switch and then one wire to go to the power cord/motor if so then there should be three wires going to the bottom of the nose, and one at the top to wire to the power supply/motor wiring, which is why I have the resistance measurements that I do, and why I have them labeled like I do.

Here's the wire colors I used when I replaced the speed coil wires:

1: WHT

2: BLK

3: GRN

4: BRN

I hope this helps.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Levi Mevis

[Chris Jacobsen]

Yes, typical older shaded pole fans would have just two leads as you described.  Yes you can pretty much assume it is like a table fan.  Things can get more complicated on later fans but this should be a fairly basic setup.  Jist start with getting your two stator leads, check ohmage and if reasonable (no open or short) then give it a try.  I would assume you have 4 wires to the nose, 3 speed settings and either a power or motor wire depending on how you decide to wire it up. 

So to the nose would be wht blk grn (not my favorite color for a power lead btw) and either a motor or power lead.

[Chris Jacobsen]

Here is a sketch of what I "see".  If you have not done so already, make yourself a schematic so it will all come together nicely.

[Levi Mevis]

1 hour ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Yes, typical older shaded pole fans would have just two leads as you described.  Yes you can pretty much assume it is like a table fan.  Things can get more complicated on later fans but this should be a fairly basic setup.  Jist start with getting your two stator leads, check ohmage and if reasonable (no open or short) then give it a try.  I would assume you have 4 wires to the nose, 3 speed settings and either a power or motor wire depending on how you decide to wire it up. 

So to the nose would be wht blk grn (not my favorite color for a power lead btw) and either a motor or power lead.

Like I said, I had to work with what I had laying around wire wise which was basically an old 3-conductor power cord from a computer (the black, white and green wires), and some old speaker wire from an old console stereo (the brown wire), as for the stator wires, one of the stator wires is attached to the bottom of one of the thumbscrews for wiring it to the AC Power, and the other one is wired up so that it goes between the AC Power thumbscrew terminal and the stator using a wire nut rather than a direct connection, and there are no wires going from the speed coil or the stator to the nose for power.

[Chris Jacobsen]

1 hour ago, Levi Mevis said:

Like I said, I had to work with what I had laying around wire wise which was basically an old 3-conductor power cord from a computer (the black, white and green wires), and some old speaker wire from an old console stereo (the brown wire), as for the stator wires, one of the stator wires is attached to the bottom of one of the thumbscrews for wiring it to the AC Power, and the other one is wired up so that it goes between the AC Power thumbscrew terminal and the stator using a wire nut rather than a direct connection, and there are no wires going from the speed coil or the stator to the nose for power.

Yup, I hear you.  May want to make a note for the wire though for if the fan is moved around, there is a good chance the green will be confused.  I have personally used polarized 2 wire power cords, split them apart and one will have a ridge/s the other smooth to indicate a hot or positive.  Just a thought.  

[Levi Mevis]

2 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Yup, I hear you.  May want to make a note for the wire though for if the fan is moved around, there is a good chance the green will be confused.  I have personally used polarized 2 wire power cords, split them apart and one will have a ridge/s the other smooth to indicate a hot or positive.  Just a thought.  

I will be using masking tape or some other type of tape that I will mark the wires with once I get the wiring straightened out on the fan and make sure its going to work how I want to wire it up using a modern pull-chain style switch.

Had I had access to a power cord with a red conductor inside I would of used that instead of the green but I unfortunately don't have access to that kind of power cord currently, which is why I used green instead, also I did have plenty of old two pronged power cords in my stash, but its very easy to confuse wires that way as well if you have 4 wire connections to something like a speed coil on a fan that you need to be able to tell the difference between the different wires and all you have are wires of one single color and multiple colors are needed to tell the high speed (bypass tap) from the medium and low speed taps, so you don't accidentally miswire the fan.

Now I'm assuming that the wires that are tied together with the wire nut for the Stator/AC Connection binding post would be where I could connect the Line In connection of the Speed Coil and then I could run a wire from that connection down the motor shaft to the nose so then the switch can have a line connection as well? if So then I think I have the fan wiring figured out then... 🤔

Edited June 8, 2023 by Levi Mevis

[Chris Jacobsen]

7 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said:

I will be using masking tape or some other type of tape that I will mark the wires with once I get the wiring straightened out on the fan and make sure its going to work how I want to wire it up using a modern pull-chain style switch.

Now I'm assuming that the wires that are tied together with the wire nut for the Stator/AC Connection binding post would be where I could connect the Line In connection of the Speed Coil and then I could run a wire from that connection down the motor shaft to the nose so then the switch can have a line connection as well? if So then I think I have the fan wiring figured out then... 🤔

That sounds right to me.  Again, diagram it out if you are not sure.  It is not so different from a table fan really, just bigger.  The switch would jist be hi med lo off.  So just 4 wires down the shaft.  Connect either line or motor to hi and line or motor being the 4th nose wire.  Other line just connects to the other motor terminal.  Be sure the motor works though by testing over line before dping all the work.

[Levi Mevis]

6 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

That sounds right to me.  Again, diagram it out if you are not sure.  It is not so different from a table fan really, just bigger.  The switch would jist be hi med lo off.  So just 4 wires down the shaft.  Connect either line or motor to hi and line or motor being the 4th nose wire.  Other line just connects to the other motor terminal.  Be sure the motor works though by testing over line before dping all the work.

OK, because like I said I'm kind of working blindly on this fan because like I said this is my first antique ceiling fan I've ever worked on and this fan was basically stripped of all of its wiring except for the speed coil wiring and the stator wiring, the original snap-switch was no longer present (I'm assuming that it broke years ago when the fan was removed from whatever location the fan originally was installed in as is common with these old ceiling fans), so there was no way to tell what wires were wired where and what wires were originally attached to the switch and what wires were wired to the binding posts for the AC Input/Stator wiring.  

[Andrew Block]

It wires up just like this.

[Chris Jacobsen]

Good drawing from Andrew.  I agree.  Don't worry too much Levi, the new pond isn't that cold!  If you have good confidence on tabletops this will follow but on a larger scale, at least it isn't a newer Hunter, with dual stator coils changing wire colors and various capacitor hookups that seem to change without notice.

[Levi Mevis]

5 hours ago, Andrew Block said:

It wires up just like this.

OK, thanks, I saw that, but I wasn't sure if the ceiling fan wiring followed that same wiring diagram or not. I'll set up my dad's saw horses in the basement and wire up the fan with the pull chain as illustrated above and get an old 2" x 6" that I have set up with the lag hook and hang the fan onto it and wire a cord up to it and see if it will work or not. 

[Levi Mevis]

OK, I have another question, How do you put oil into the fan?

I wired it up and plugged it in and turned it on (using a circuit breaker protected surge protector just in case something wasn't wired up right) and the fan started up but it was noisier than all get out (the bearings were making grinding noises presumably because there was no oil in the fan.)

Edited June 10, 2023 by Levi Mevis

[Levi Mevis]

OK, so another update on the fan, I got some 30wt Non-Detergent Oil from the hardware store and I filled the oil cup (I believe found the spot where you add the oil on the fan) and turned on the fan, and it does run like it should, except for some reason the speed control switch/pull-chain switch isn't working as intended at least not the way I have it wired up currently because the motor is on all the time no matter how many times I pull the chain, so I can only assume I wired up the speed coil to the motor wrong, either that or the pull-chain is malfunctioning. 

[Chris Jacobsen]

The not so noticeable speed may also just be that the resistance values are not too far apart and speed dofference os negligable.  Also youay notice more difference once the blades are on.  You have an ohm meter, just test your switch functions.  As mentioned, diagram everything and if in doubt, use your dmm and confirm.  If the fan never turns off, are you sure your switch is indeed an on 1 2 3 off4?  Not a 1 2 1-2 style switch?  Or yes maybe something is not wired right...  No diagram or not sure of partz = lots of wasted time frustration and guessing.

[Levi Mevis]

4 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

The not so noticeable speed may also just be that the resistance values are not too far apart and speed dofference os negligable.  Also youay notice more difference once the blades are on.  You have an ohm meter, just test your switch functions.  As mentioned, diagram everything and if in doubt, use your dmm and confirm.  If the fan never turns off, are you sure your switch is indeed an on 1 2 3 off4?  Not a 1 2 1-2 style switch?  Or yes maybe something is not wired right...  No diagram or not sure of partz = lots of wasted time frustration and guessing.

I am sure the fan is not turning off with the switch, no matter how many times I pull the chain the fan motor affected by the pull chain.

The fan as it was wired up (I had the brown wire attached to the "L" on the switch, the white wire attached to the "1", the black wire attached to the "2" and the green wire attached to the "3" on the switch, and then the other end of the brown wire was tied into the wires that went between the stator and the binding post for the AC power hookup on the top of the motor housing which the wires are tied together with a single wire nut. 

The only other thing I can think of is that perhaps I switched the brown and white wires around, because when I was ohming out the speed coil wires to figure out which wires were the "high" (bypass) wires and which wires were the Medium and Low connections and the Line in connection I got different ohm readings between the white wire and the black and green wires vs. the brown wire and the black and green wires which are as follows:

BRN-GRN: 3.1 Ohms                WHT-GRN: 2.2 Ohms

BLK-BRN: 2.7 Ohms                  WHT-BLK: 2.6 Ohms

So I don't know if like I said maybe I swapped the Brown and White wires by accident or what, but all I know is that the pull-chain switch when I wired it up, and tested the fan with the pull-chain switch, nothing happened with the fan.

And yes I'm sure my switch is a proper Off-> 1-> 2-> 3->Off pull-chain switch (an actual 3 speed fan switch) and not a Off->1->2->1+2->Off light switch.

 

[Chris Jacobsen]

Little different from the way I would do it but of executed properly it should work the same.  Usually I will put a Line lead, usually hot, on the L of the switch in other words it should be on the switching arm.  So if you are switching and notice no change or even a pause when switching speeds, you have line directly to the motor constantly.  This means the switch os not breaking anything at all so your switch os not wired correctly assuming you have physically verified proper switch operation. 

Try remove the switch speed coil taps except one and line.  This should guarantee turn off the motor on all but one setting if not then pull the one more wire so all is isolated, motor stays running then you know what is wrong.

[Levi Mevis]

19 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Little different from the way I would do it but of executed properly it should work the same.  Usually I will put a Line lead, usually hot, on the L of the switch in other words it should be on the switching arm.  So if you are switching and notice no change or even a pause when switching speeds, you have line directly to the motor constantly.  This means the switch os not breaking anything at all so your switch os not wired correctly assuming you have physically verified proper switch operation. 

Try remove the switch speed coil taps except one and line.  This should guarantee turn off the motor on all but one setting if not then pull the one more wire so all is isolated, motor stays running then you know what is wrong.

What's weird is that the wire I pulled down for what I assumed was the line connection to the switch which was the brown wire was wire nutted to the stator and one side of the AC line which is tied into the AC Line binding post, unfortunately my pull-chain switch broke on me when I was trying to remove the wires from it, thankfully I have some newer Westinghouse ceiling fans up in the attic of my house that I think I can steal a switch from.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Levi Mevis

[Chris Jacobsen]

Just add things slowly, when you put a lot together all at once it becomes much harder to backtrace a mistake.  Very similar to working on a radio, car or wristwatch.  Patience and double check your work until you did the kob enough times that you are confident.  Underatand the theory of what you are doing.

[Levi Mevis]

OK, I finally figured out my problem, I had wired the switched side of the stator to the wire that went to the switched side of the AC Line Binding Posts so then the motor was more or less "hardwired" so then I connected the switched side of the stator to the black wire on the speed coil, and then the switched side of the AC Line Binding Post to the Line In on the switch, and then wired up the rest of the speed coil wires to the 1, 2 and 3 marks on the switch and tried it out and sure enough it worked and the motor actually had some "distinct" speeds (well about as distinct as you'll get without the blades attached to see how fast its actually going) but I figured out the way I wired up the speed coil to the pull-chain switch I wired it up so that it went from slow to fast rather than fast to slow, so I need to switch the wires around but that's no biggie.

Now I just need to sand the blades I got from Louis  W. and stain and varnish them and then use some steel wool on the blade irons to clean them up and then re-paint them because the original paint on them was peeling and chipping and then get a hold of some lighting supplies and install a "light kit" onto the fan and then figure out how to wire it up in my living room. 

[Chris Jacobsen]

Good job Levi, hurdle cleared.

[Levi Mevis]

39 minutes ago, Chris Jacobsen said:

Good job Levi, hurdle cleared.

Thanks, so now I know the fan is fully functional, but for some reason, the fan when its running buzzes, it goes "brrm, brrm, brrm..." when its running.

I'll try to post a video of it running so you can hear what I mean.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Levi Mevis

[Chris Jacobsen]

Bearings perhaps.  Also make sure you add enough oil, fully submerge the bearing and bit of the base of the shaft.  Similar filling level as hunter originals.  May also be drag at a point slowing it down and loading the motor intermittently.

[Steve Rockwell]

     Just stumbled on to these:

 

 

                                   Source & Subject Unknown...

[Chris Jacobsen]

3 minutes ago, Steve Rockwell said:

     Just stumbled on to these:

 

 

                                   Source & Subject Unknown...

Very nice!  Wish more info like thst were around for old Emersons.