Levi Mevis Posted June 15, 2023 Author Share Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) On 6/13/2023 at 5:24 PM, Steve Rockwell said: Just stumbled on to these: Source & Subject Unknown... I think I may have finally found a switch for this fan that is a period correct 3 speed snap switch on ebay, and they only want $49 for it, see link below, there was another one I found as well, that actually had the same screw configuration as the one in the diagram above, can you let me know if the switch in the listing below would work or not? Ebay Snap Switch Listing Ebay Snap Switch Listing 2 Thanks. Edited June 15, 2023 by Levi Mevis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Levi Mevis said: I think I may have finally found a switch for this fan that is a period correct 3 speed snap switch on ebay, and they only want $49 for it, see link below, there was another one I found as well, that actually had the same screw configuration as the one in the diagram above, can you let me know if the switch in the listing below would work or not? Ebay Snap Switch Listing Ebay Snap Switch Listing 2 Thanks. The second one is a stove switch, I used a couple of these, they look nice and I have no problem but not the "correct" or should I say authentic switch. The first one you want to compare screw hole spacing and diameter also make sure it is a 123off switch like the second one. It is a matter of preference really, "authentic" fan switches are rather expensive, sometimes hundreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Also noted someone os trying to corner the ebay market on those switches, there used to be a lot for sale, now I see them "restored" and quadruple priced by this one guy. Sorta makes .e feel like giving him competition... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Mevis Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said: The second one is a stove switch, I used a couple of these, they look nice and I have no problem but not the "correct" or should I say authentic switch. The first one you want to compare screw hole spacing and diameter also make sure it is a 123off switch like the second one. It is a matter of preference really, "authentic" fan switches are rather expensive, sometimes hundreds. I asked the seller about the first switch to see if it is a 1->2->3->Off switch or not. So we'll see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) I have no expertise with these things. Little education about them beyond applied reasoning and a limited amount of common sense... As my friend Don Middleton said, "common sense isn't common", but I'm making no claims... Here is an equivalent switch, there appears to be an industry standard at work. What Chris said is quite correct, and you should determine as a starting point Levi what size (diameter) switch base fits, and what dimensions of attachment point apply, because you can hash over all sorts of details only to learn it wouldn't have fit in the first place... Also, is it confirmed to be a two-speed fan, or do you require the third speed? The photos are of a nominal 2 1/4" ceramic base switch with the same electrical specs as the H & H above. For lack of proper nomenclature let's name the outer fittings the contacts, and the inner (rotating) as fingers. The fingers are in two tiers, we'll name them upper and lower. The action of the switch (all new to me, never had one open before) is that the upper fingers grip opposite contacts from both sides of the contact, temporarily clamp it as it were... apologies for this elementary description, you all know this stuff already I'd think... and when the switch is snapped, the fingers take a 90° twist and the other pair of opposite contacts are gripped, this time by the lower fingers. Two adjacent contacts are linked underside of the entire unit, allowing for the possibility of a common line (feed) and two load options, selected by the snap. (Now comes the applied reasoning) Were the (fan's) field suitably wound, there would be a possibility of achieving two speeds with this switch, but there would be no on/off capability that I can see or imagine... That's how I read it, and I'm prepared and eager to be enlightened by someone more knowledgable................. knowledgable, period. Edited June 16, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 From what I can determine, a three-speed switch has a continuous race for the lower finger contact, and the upper rotating finger(s) grip each of three contacts, the fourth contact being linked to and feeding the lower race... In light of the above, I'd say the first eBay option presented would not be suitable... This subject is probably dealt with in the Old Forum to perfection, but I'm still not accessing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Steve did a good analytical observation in my opinion. The center shaft is typically the "wiper arm" that selects which pole to contact. 123off switches are usually numbered so it is a little surprising that the one Steve has is not labelled. However in the 30s era and back, there were a lot less standards so weird variations in all sorts of things can be found. This is the era where you had bare wires run through the house, the "tube and bobbin" style. The nice thing is that usually when rotary switches were put into fans, they usually followed the easiest method, plop in a rotary light style switch. I bought about 8 random rotary switches to check them out and most are similar but there are some smaller ones, the stove switch is a smaller diameter, I have a couple. I would say an authentic three speed switch is one of the harder parts of find, probably really only found in fan applications and many died with the fan. It is almost worthwhile to consider when buying a ceiling fan to make sure it has a switch or remains of one to be repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rathberger Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 This is a 3 speed switch from the pile. It appears to have a single contact plate. The plate has 4 contacts, 3 on a single plane and one on an upper plane. It has four positions. The lower plane, except for off, always makes contact with one point. The upper plane then makes contact with the other 3 contacts. To be honest, I never put it to use so unsure how it functions in an appliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, Michael Rathberger said: This is a 3 speed switch from the pile. It appears to have a single contact plate. The plate has 4 contacts, 3 on a single plane and one on an upper plane. It has four positions. The lower plane, except for off, always makes contact with one point. The upper plane then makes contact with the other 3 contacts. To be honest, I never put it to use so unsure how it functions in an appliance. That is an authentic switch (noting the nimbers). One line in, one directly to motor, the other two to speed coil. Super nice to have. I was trying to find a way to make one from other switches for another Emerson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Mevis Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chris Jacobsen said: That is an authentic switch (noting the nimbers). One line in, one directly to motor, the other two to speed coil. Super nice to have. I was trying to find a way to make one from other switches for another Emerson. OK so the guy messaged me back about the switch, and he said that those switches wouldn't work for my application, and linked me to a listing he had for a switch that he had for sale that he said should work for my fan. See link below. eBay Switch Listing 3 Let me know if you think this switch is indeed going to work or not like the seller said it should. According to the listing he has 10 of them available. Edited June 16, 2023 by Levi Mevis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said: OK so the guy messaged me back about the switch, and he said that those switches wouldn't work for my application, and linked me to a listing he had for a switch that he had for sale that he said should work for my fan. See link below. eBay Switch Listing 3 Let me know if you think this switch is indeed going to work or not like the seller said it should. According to the listing he has 10 of them available. Yea I am not hot on that seller... also wont work for ypur three speeds anyways. Basically you have a 2 speed with this. Hi-Lo-Off. This is good for a dial filament light switch, like you mentioned earlier in tjis thread. Look at the dial saying 1+2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Here's my last hurrah..... Go to GENERAL ELECTRIC-------- Bulletins, Instruction Sheets, Price Lists, Catalogs 1895-1952 https://new.afcaforum.com/index.php?/topic/592-general-electric-bulletins-instruction-sheets-price-lists-catalogs-1895-1952/#comment-3705 You want to check 1915 Book 81702 and 1917 Book 81702A Edited June 17, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Catalogs show that somewhere between 1914 and 1919 the 44986 went from two speeds to three, and the books cited in the previous Post suggest that change took place 1916 or 1917, right there in the Form S era..... Edited June 17, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Mevis Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said: Catalogs show that somewhere between 1914 and 1919 the 44986 went from two speeds to three, and the books cited in the previous Post suggest that change took place 1916 or 1917, right there in the Form S era..... Yes, for sure mine is a 3 speeder, because it has a speed coil (or regulator coil as GE called it in their diagram) that has the normal 3-speed setup. I'm thinking that I may just have to stick with my original idea (for now) of just cutting out a piece of round sheet metal the same diameter as the hole in the nose of the fan and drill a hole in the middle for a pull-chain switch and then 2 holes for fastening the sheet metal to the nose, and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said: Yes, for sure mine is a 3 speeder, because it has a speed coil (or regulator coil as GE called it in their diagram) that has the normal 3-speed setup. I'm thinking that I may just have to stick with my original idea (for now) of just cutting out a piece of round sheet metal the same diameter as the hole in the nose of the fan and drill a hole in the middle for a pull-chain switch and then 2 holes for fastening the sheet metal to the nose, and go from there. Or go with a stove switch, little smaller but same era, functional and looks pretty good. Most people will have no idea anyways that its not original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Block Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Derek Warnecke makes replacment switches which are almost indistinguishable once they are painted and installed. Much cheaper than finding an original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Mevis Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 49 minutes ago, Andrew Block said: Derek Warnecke makes replacment switches which are almost indistinguishable once they are painted and installed. Much cheaper than finding an original. It would depend on how much he would charge for one of his switches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Block Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Levi Mevis said: It would depend on how much he would charge for one of his switches... I believe they were around $40 or so at the last meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Block Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Andrew Block said: Looks pretty good, I assume there is a modern rotary switch on back of the cover but not bad. Guess the most notable dofference would be the lack of the speed status window. Curious what blade arms you are using, they look newer? I need to find a couple sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Block Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 There is a new rotary switch on the back. Some of the switches (notably Westinghouse) didn't have the window. At this point, to me, it's not worth spending $200 for a switch for a $250 fan. These are an excellent compromise and Derek's attention to detail and printwork is top notch. Only other thing to do is paint the screws and the lock nut for the switch and I doubt anyone could tell without a closer inspection. Those are the original blade arms for that fan (It's Derek's, not mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, Andrew Block said: There is a new rotary switch on the back. Some of the switches (notably Westinghouse) didn't have the window. At this point, to me, it's not worth spending $200 for a switch for a $250 fan. These are an excellent compromise and Derek's attention to detail and printwork is top notch. Only other thing to do is paint the screws and the lock nut for the switch and I doubt anyone could tell without a closer inspection. Those are the original blade arms for that fan (It's Derek's, not mine). Yup, I totally agree on the price delta. This switch is a great piece of work. I was also thinking perhaps an original rotary on/off switch can be modified like this, providing vintage patina on an antique switch cover and handle. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Block Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 46 minutes ago, Chris Jacobsen said: Yup, I totally agree on the price delta. This switch is a great piece of work. I was also thinking perhaps an original rotary on/off switch can be modified like this, providing vintage patina on an antique switch cover and handle. Food for thought. Anythings possible with time and money. For a functional piece, I just stick a single pole in and use a wall control. Most people don't care and would rather have it controlled at the wall. For the few that do care, with means to back it up, I have a drawer full of original switches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jacobsen Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Andrew Block said: Anythings possible with time and money. For a functional piece, I just stick a single pole in and use a wall control. Most people don't care and would rather have it controlled at the wall. For the few that do care, with means to back it up, I have a drawer full of original switches. Bet original switches cost a pretty penny. Just glad my fans have switches or remnants that are repairable. Did you ever get your latest ceiling fan haul sorted? I was still interested in seeing what you may offer out of them and what price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Mevis Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Well the thing is that I'm kind of a stickler for detail when it comes to restoring antiques, whether they be mine or someone else's, (in this case the fan is mine) and I prefer to try and find as many original or period correct (NOS or UOS) parts as I can when I restore anything antique or vintage, whether it be an old tube radio, a record player/changer, a fan, a clock, a lamp, etc, if original (NOS, or UOS) can't be located, then I will use brand new or reproduction parts, but that is NOT my preferred methodology. That's why I was hoping to find a NOS or UOS speed control switch for my fan. Edited June 23, 2023 by Levi Mevis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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