Todd Adornato Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 Hi folks, I have an Emerson 19666 that ran just fine until recently. Now when I switch it on, it produces a humming noise but the blades don’t move. If I switch it to High and give the blades a push, it spins up and runs normally, but if I switch to Med or Lo, the blades slow down and stop. I also got a mild shock when I touched the metal surface on which the fan was sitting, and touched the fan with my other hand. I unplugged the power and removed the speed coil / switch assembly, and found a loose wire (yellow arrow). I’m not certain where it should go, but it has solder on it, so I figure it goes to the contact that also has solder on it (red arrow). Am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Behrend Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I’m pretty sure that is correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 26 Author Share Posted April 26 27 minutes ago, Mark Behrend said: I’m pretty sure that is correct Thanks for the quick response! I have a wiring diagram from a 24666 which I figured was the same as for the 19666, but I didn’t want to take a chance on sparks or a fire 😁 Unfortunately, the push start is still needed to get the blades spinning. At least the shock is gone 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Ray Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 I would check your ohms between the 3 head wires with said wires disconnected from the switch assembly. Shouldn't have to spin start your fan. Might have a bad start winding. Report your ohm combinations between the 3 head wires. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 5 minutes ago, Patrick Ray said: I would check your ohms between the 3 head wires with said wires disconnected from the switch assembly. Shouldn't have to spin start your fan. Might have a bad start winding. Report your ohm combinations between the 3 head wires. I wondered about the start winding, but it’s odd to me the issue appeared all of a sudden. It wasn’t like the fan was taking longer to get up to speed, or trying harder and harder, etc. It worked just fine over and over, then the next time, bam. I’ll check the ohms tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Ok, I removed all three head wires and measured resistance across them. Referring to the pic, between the wire on the top of the speed coil (under the red rubberized coating) and the still-attached wire, I got 11 ohms. Between the top wire and the loose wire, and between the still-attached wire and the loose wire, the connections were both open. So I believe there’s a break at the stator end; please correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks to all who’ve chimed in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Ray Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Sounds like you've got an open line somewhere. Maybe that "somewhere" is just the head wire. I'd drop the stator out and check ohms right where the head wire connects to the stator. You might be lucky and just need a new head wire. But I see that the head wire is not the original. Possible bad connections head wires to stator? Recheck at stator to verify. Edited April 27 by Patrick Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Thank goodness for these old big-motor Emersons - the stator came right out. Lo and behold, one of the head wires spliced into the stator wires was sliced right through at an angle. No idea how anyone managed to do that while the wires were inside the housing, unless maybe they cut it by accident while assembling it, decided it was more trouble than it was worth, and put it back together as is. The ohm readings across the three stator wires are 148, 137, and 11. Seems rather an odd spread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Ray Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Your ohm readings are perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Well, after I replaced the head wire, the fan now runs on all three speeds without any push starts needed 😁 Thanks for the advice, Patrick - much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Ray Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Glad it was an easy enough fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 Well, just now I had the fan running on Low for 15 minutes while the speed coil was still separate from the base, and I noticed the layered steel plates in the coil were getting hot to the touch. As in, almost too hot to keep my finger on them. I hadn’t noticed this sort of thing before; is this normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 Bringing this back to the top - is it normal for the speed coil to get very hot? I tried googling it, and saw some hits on the old forum, but that venue is no longer accessible. I was thinking about removing the layered steel plates and cleaning up the assembly, but that would be a fair bit of work, so I wanted to check here first. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted Saturday at 11:45 AM Author Share Posted Saturday at 11:45 AM Anyone know about the really hot speed coil issue? Anyone? Bueller… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted Saturday at 03:35 PM Share Posted Saturday at 03:35 PM (edited) The speed coil should not get hot. It’s an induction coil not a pure resistance coil like on a DC. . Perhaps warm, but not hot. Something is going on. Edited Saturday at 03:36 PM by Lane Shirey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted Saturday at 04:28 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 04:28 PM Lane, thanks for the confirmation something is wrong. Any tips on where I should start trouble shooting - is this a known issue on speed coils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave McManaman Posted Saturday at 04:45 PM Share Posted Saturday at 04:45 PM My eyes aren’t the best but what’s the red stuff on top of the coil? Is it thick? Preventing the normal warmth from dissipating and causing the stack to heat up? Just brainstorming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted Saturday at 04:58 PM Share Posted Saturday at 04:58 PM (edited) If the fan is running as it should with three distinct speeds and your coil is super-hot, the coil windings MAY be shorting internally due to magnet winding insulation breakdown from age. The BIG motor 12" 6 pole Emersons (19666) run on roughly the same wattage as the smaller motor 12" 4 pole 24646. It is possible to swap the coils from type models such as the 24646. You would want to test the 24646 coil/switch outside of the fan before you install it to see if it is a good donor and see how hot it gets. This is a way to cheat a rewind. Or, you can pay someone to rewind your speed coil. Edited Saturday at 05:03 PM by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted Saturday at 05:15 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 05:15 PM 27 minutes ago, Dave McManaman said: My eyes aren’t the best but what’s the red stuff on top of the coil? Is it thick? Preventing the normal warmth from dissipating and causing the stack to heat up? Just brainstorming. Someone before me did that - honest 😁 It looks and feels like the stuff bare tool handles are dipped in for a rubber-like grip. I can’t see enough of the coil to determine how far into it the red stuff has penetrated, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted Saturday at 05:17 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 05:17 PM Russ, thanks for the tip about the 24646 switch! IIRC, speed coil rebuilds are $150-250, if I’m not mistaken? Anyone on the forum who does those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted Saturday at 05:24 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:24 PM 8 minutes ago, Todd Adornato said: Someone before me did that - honest 😁 It looks and feels like the stuff bare tool handles are dipped in for a rubber-like grip. It has nothing to do with the coil overheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted Saturday at 05:34 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:34 PM (edited) After it cures it toughens up and will secure wire placement, as well as insulate. Edited Saturday at 05:38 PM by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted Saturday at 09:55 PM Share Posted Saturday at 09:55 PM (edited) I was in my stash today and peeked at a 21666 and 19666 12" 6-pole BIG motor types. Both had 65 Watts stamped in the motor tag. I then checked two 12" 4-pole small motor 24646 models that had wattage stampings in the tags. One was 60 watts and the other 64 watts. There you go. It would be logical the 21646, 27646, 29646, 73646, etc. 12" small motor 4 pole type numbers either oscillating or stationary types would be operating at similar wattage as the 24646 models. You can thank Alex Rushing for this tip of swapping speed coils from an Emerson 4 pole small motor to a BIG motor 6 pole. He was the one who first brought it to our attention on the old website. Regardless, if you do this swap to cheat a rewind, ALWAYS test the switch coil wired outside the fan on medium-low speeds for a good hour to see how warm the coil gets. Edited Saturday at 09:59 PM by Russ Huber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Adornato Posted Sunday at 12:54 AM Author Share Posted Sunday at 12:54 AM Russ, thanks for the info. Do you know who on the forum does rewinds of these speed coils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted Sunday at 01:03 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:03 AM 6 minutes ago, Todd Adornato said: Russ, thanks for the info. Do you know who on the forum does rewinds of these speed coils? Make a separate post you're looking for someone to rewind your coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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