Where does this washer go? on 1920s Emerson 45041 DC

[Bob Dittrick]

Hi I'm a new member working on my first project, refinishing a ceiling fan my father purchased from a Mexican Hotel 50+ years ago. It was one of those iconic images from my formative years, and I've had it in the house that I built in Alaska for the last 30 years. Now I'm planning to move to Washington State and because I can't live without it, took it down and realized it needs some work.

I thought I'd make my dad proud, rest his soul, by diving in and learning how it worked. Knowing nothing about electric motors I was quickly over my head looking at a giant learning curve ahead. Thank goodness I discovered Derek Warnecke's excellent YouTube videos and he was generous to link me into a string on this forum which was so helpful it kept me going.  I have had a great time learning a whole new field and working through this puzzle. 

Discovering the AFCA has been delightful, the resources and accumulated knowledge here on this forum astounds me as I search for answers to my dozens of questions. I'm looking forward to spending many more hours in the forum and I already have my eyes open for a new project.

Anyway "the washer.".. I've attached a screen shot from Derek's thread about restoring his Emerson 45041 Longnose. It is a shot of his parts with an arrow indicating the washer/ring of question.  I had this a couple months ago when I took the fan apart, but it disappeared on me. I've spent much time on my hands and knees around my bench and checked the bag in the shop vac. Don't judge, I know you have been there!  So not only do I now need to replace it, but don't know it's purpose or where it goes in the reassembly. Can someone help please?

[Michael Bouthiller]

U have a DC Emerson Longnose those are very rare and that one u have is in amazing condition 😁

[Bob Dittrick]

Thanks, I had been wondering if it was considered a longnose even though it had a bell housing for a light globe rather than the snout with the clicker switch.

[Bob Dittrick]

I could use some help figuring how this fan is supposed to go together. I have a thin felt washer that I believe goes underneath the thrust bearing, but when I originally disassembled the fan there was what appeared to be the remnants of another larger felt washer. It fell apart and I wasn't sure where it was in the assembly. Would there also be a wool washer above the bearing? Possibly as part of the lubrication system? Then there is the mystery ring / washer that started this thread. I haven't come up with a theory about what it is or where it goes. It doesn't help that I don't have it to examine.  Does anyone know where I can find a parts list /diagram for a Emerson 45041? I can't seem to find one anywhere.

[Andrew Block]

Derek Wernecke can comment, he's restored one of these more recently than I. I have a few in "the pile" but to me that appears to be the lead or copper crush washer that would go underneath the oil cup before you tightened that nut down. It would be there to seal the threads from oil seepage, which is common on these fans. I usually use teflon tape on the threads.

In regards to the bearing, these usually had a leather washer underneath the bearing and a felt washer over them. But I have seen double leather washers. They are not there for lubrication but for isolation to keep vibrations to a minimum. I usually go back with double leather washers or use a felt one if I have one available. Sometimes I just cut out a double later of thick felt and use that. It really doesn't matter, as these are not to hold oil. The oil is picked up by the spiral groove as the fan turns (provided there is sufficient oil in the cup) and pumped to the top, to be returned by the oil return. The bearing is submerged either way.

[Bob Dittrick]

Andrew, Thanks this information is most helpful. I had thought that maybe the ring had something to do with sealing the oil cup, though I've never heard of a crush washer, it makes total sense. Now I need to figure out where to find them. and now I know what I'm asking for. I appreciate you letting me know that some of these things don't seem to be as critical as I was afraid.  I had checked Mc Masters for wool washers and because I live in Alaska 25 washers were going to cost 65$ with shipping. Now I'm comfortable knowing their purpose and  plan on making my own felt and leather washers, and I will definitely take your advise to use teflon tape. I do hope Dererk chimes in, I'd like the opportunity to ask him several questions. 

[Derek Warnecke]

Hi there, Bob.  It's great seeing your post here, along with the fan itself!  It looks great with that big globe.  Your model looks to be slightly later than mine since it has a square tag (mine is round, likely a 1923-24 model).

The washer that you seek is a copper crush washer, and they are common across most Emerson ceiling fans from this era.  It helps seal the cast iron oil cup against the steel shaft at the top of the threads.  This connection needs to be good and tight to keep oil in the oil cup, particularly when the level is high.  You may be able to get by with Teflon tape and no crush washer, although if I were you, I'd try to seek one out regardless.

[Andrew Block]

Honestly, you can use any fairly good quality felt. I worry the cheap ones would break down in oil but wool should not. 

Find a leather shop and go ask for some remnants. My shop usually gives them to me and I trace the lower race onto it and cut it with scissors. Not always pretty but it doesn't have to be. The whole purpose is just to isolate the bearing from the body, and the rotor from the bearing. 

[Bob Dittrick]

Hi Derek, It's good to be in touch again. Thanks to you and Andrew identifying the crush washer, I can now move forward again. I have spent the last several weeks stressing that the ring might be some proprietary piece of hardware critical to the bearings that Emerson manufactured in the 1920s and is impossible to find. It is tough being a rookie, I didn't know crush washers were a thing. Derek, Inspired by your U-Tube videos, I am also going to rewire the resistance coil. I've purchased a couple different gauges of Kanthal wire, and if your don't mind I have a couple questions for you. My resistance coil looks a lot like yours did before rewiring if I remember correctly. The connections are little remnant stubs of cloth covered (maybe asbestos) single wire.

I assume the resistance coil produces enough heat that these connections need to be up to the job. I noticed in your restoration you used some fancy looking pigtails of the resistance coil. Are these special heat resistance connectors? are they single wire? what did you feel you needed at that application?

Andrew, I am not totally clear of the function of the wool washer. You mentioned reducing vibration. I'm assuming it rides atop of the thrust bearing and therefore is submerged in the oil cup. How thick do you recommend it be? and would you make it the same diameter as the bearing?

thanks you guys

 

[Bob Dittrick]

Derek do you know of any Emerson electric data source that would list the dates of fan manufacture by it's identification number?