Jandus Ball motor question

[David Kilnapp]

Hello fan friends. I recently acquired this fan from Dan Nguyen (nice guy). Though it took a month to travel from Hanoi to Massachusetts, it was worth the wait. I'm still waiting on the box with the cage and blade.

Here is the fan:

The stump arrived today. Great packing job by Dan. The fan was very noisy when I first fired it up and I figured out that the front and rear bearings were a little loose resulting in that magnetic noise when the stator energizes. Tightening the front and rear caps (below pictures) eliminated the noise and kept the rotor centered in the stator. Apparently, there was a ball bearing behind the rear cap which also helped to keep the rotor centered in the stator and in the bearing.

You can see the indentation where the ball bearing should have been. The chrome nose unscrews so I put a very thin washer behind it to stabilize the bearing and that eliminated the noise.

Take a look at the picture above. The motor tag clearly says 160 volts. Dan stated (and I believe him) that this is a 110 volt fan. So why does the motor tag say 160V. I thought that perhaps the tag was incorrectly stamped and the fan was 60 volts. The fan will not run at sixty volts. It definitely likes to run (on two speeds) at 110 volts. 

So that's my question - what's with the motor tag voltage?

I'll be having the struts, cage and blade stripped and re-nickel plated by a local metal shop that I've done business before. This fan deserves to look its best.

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by David Kilnapp

[Russ Huber]

You need to find the correct diameter ball bearing.

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

60-volt DC tag for railway. 

[Russ Huber]

Donald Coleman reproduction Jandus ball motor tags. If it runs good at 110 AC, you can make a tag for it. 

[Nicholas Denney]

In my significant collecting experience, I've found that US export items sold in Southern Europe are sometimes labeled for 160V. This persisted until at least the 40s although I'm not sure why. I would suggest NOT changing the tag, it is original and correct.

[Chris Campbell]

Paul Graves knows these fans the best followed by Darryl Hudson. I wired mine for DC and it runs at 60v

[Russ Huber]

The Jandus ball motor used is the same motor for either alternating or direct current. The motor has a laminated stator for either option. The only difference is how they are wired. The AC model switch has no coil or resistance wire for speed option. The DC model is wired in series (no shorted brushes) and operates as a universal laminated stator motor using resistance wire on the switch for 3 speed option. The AC model is intended to be wired for two speeds gained through switch selection placing the fan motor in either series or parallel circuit explained in the patent description below. The brushes are shorted as seen in Stowe's AC motor patent creating a repulsion motor. Move the switch lever to engage stator coils in parallel for high speed, move the switch lever to cut out one of the stator coils for low speed.

 

Edited September 24, 2024 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

2 hours ago, Nicholas Denney said:

In my significant collecting experience, I've found that US export items sold in Southern Europe are sometimes labeled for 160V. 

Show me a picture of a fan motor tag with 160 volts on the tag dating 02-08. 

[Russ Huber]

On 9/21/2024 at 7:12 PM, David Kilnapp said:

It definitely likes to run (on two speeds) at 110 volts. 

David,

So, does it appear to run "normal" on both speed selections at 110 volts? If you have a strobe with digital read out, what is the RPM on high-speed selection?

If it runs what you feel at correct speed on 110 volts on both selections, sounds like a plan to me. 🙂

Edited September 24, 2024 by Russ Huber

[Chris Campbell]

11 hours ago, Nicholas Denney said:

In my significant collecting experience, I've found that US export items sold in Southern Europe are sometimes labeled for 160V. This persisted until at least the 40s although I'm not sure why. I would suggest NOT changing the tag, it is original and correct.

i have doubts on tag and never heard of 160v. If there was any product for Southern Europe at a 160v it would  have been produced by Marelli. 
 

The Marelli page does not include any at 160v. Through 1940’s … should be many examples. Maybe you can find a few and post here if your comment is correct.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Chris Campbell

[David Kilnapp]

Thank you Russ and Chris. I'll leave it as is. I've learned some interesting things working on this fan. The fan runs very noisily if you let the front and rear bearings float i.e. that magnetic noise when the rotor is making contact with the stator. Locking the bearings in place by putting pressure on them with washers behind the threaded cap (in the front) and the big screw (in the back) eliminates all of the noise. I imagine that putting a "set screw" in the frame of the fan which can be accessed behind the covers, to lock the floating bearings down might be a good solution but that would require drilling threaded holes which I don't want to do. I will leave the motor tag as is and just note that the fan is indeed a 110V fan if I ever decide to sell it. Yesterday, the cage, blade and struts arrived in the mail (Dan Nguyen did a fantastic packing job). I delivered them to a local metal finisher whom I've used in the past (on my Dr. Max Levy fan) who will strip the old nickel plating off and re-apply new nickel plating. The old plating was very pitted and nasty. This fan will really be outstanding when the parts are ready in about three weeks. Not inexpensive (the estimate was $300-$350) but this fan is definitely worth it. This is my fourth ball motor fan. My collection includes the ball motor fans below:

12 inch 110VDC MESCO

8 inch 6VDC MESCO battery fan (restoration in process)

Carlton

[Steve Cunningham]

When this fan was made, you bought your fan at the local appliance company. You bought your appliances to operate at whatever voltage was available in your area. Voltage and cycles wouldn’t be standardized for years to come. It may surprise you to learn that Los Angeles operated on 50 cycles until the 1950’s.

[David Kilnapp]

I am indeed surprised to hear that LA power was 50Hz. That's interesting, Chris. Thanks for posting.

 

[Michael Rathberger]

While I would leave it as 110V and call it a day I would be interested in Russ's idea of a strobe test for speed and at what voltage under 110 does it start to take off. If not 60, 70,80,90? I would have thought you get something out of it at 60V, it being more than half voltage. I have a 110 tagged version I'll get to this winter and run similar tests to compare.

[Russ Huber]

Here are some interesting details that I missed until this post. 1902-04 Jandus articles support 12", 15", and 16" desk and bracket models with "3" speeds. Each model has their own set of 3 RPM speeds. No mention of differentiating between direct and alternating current models. They were wound for 60 and 133 cycles. The voltage options offered in 04 were 100-120 volts and 200-250 volts. This would no doubt exclude special applications like ship or railway.

The 12" top speed listed on the 3 speed model is 1600 RPM.

Why no mention of the AC repulsion 2 speed models supported by Stowe's patents. Maybe I missed something?

[Russ Huber]

12 minutes ago, Russ Huber said:

Maybe I missed something?

Yes, I did. Jandus had strong focus on the DC models over the AC 02-04. Their first fan motor was a 12" DC model in 1901. It was on display at the Pan American Exposition 01.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

"Dan stated (and I believe him) that this is a 110 volt fan."

 

I wouldn't hesitate to swap out that 160 volt motor tag if the fan is functioning properly and spins at roughly 1500+ RPM on 110 VAC.

[David Kilnapp]

Ill have to find a strobe

[Russ Huber]

I bought one of these from McComas years ago. It's still ticking despite the licking.

Edit: McComas would know better than I current update models. 

Exc Vtg Working Digistrobe DJ Strobe Light M-C Variable Speed 70's Ametek 1142 | eBay

Edited September 24, 2024 by Russ Huber

[David Kilnapp]

Thanks for the link, Russ!!

[Steve Cunningham]

On 9/24/2024 at 8:59 AM, David Kilnapp said:

I am indeed surprised to hear that LA power was 50Hz. That's interesting, Chris. Thanks for posting.

 

When they converted to 60 cycles it was a big deal. The power company had to convert every electric clock at their expense. 

[Nicholas Denney]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:06 AM, Chris Campbell said:

i have doubts on tag and never heard of 160v. If there was any product for Southern Europe at a 160v it would  have been produced by Marelli. 
 

The Marelli page does not include any at 160v. Through 1940’s … should be many examples. Maybe you can find a few and post here if your comment is correct.

I never heard of it either, until i started seeing things marked for 160V. Here is the most recent example, where I wanted to buy a particular glow lamp (I'm sure you can see why) from a seller in Italy. I asked them what voltage the lamp was since it wasn't specified, and it was 160v. I can ask them to re-upload the photos showing the voltage on the base. This definitely wasn't made by Marelli, but rather Aerolux.

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Nicholas Denney
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