Jandus Wire Mount DC Ball Motor Frankenstein?

[Mel Lagarde]

Gentlemen 

 

I submit to you what I am concluding to be a wonderful looking but unfortunately not original DC Ball Motor Jandus.   This fan was part of Jack Johnson’s collection and I have researched the old forums and have found nothing to document a matching as this.   
 

What I think I have is wall mount DC Jandus motor stuck on a Jandus base or a wire mount Jandus that some one has placed a DC ball motor.   
 

I offer this to the forum for your thoughts on this one.  I don’t think a wire mount DC desk fan was offered.    Is this real, or a Frankenstein?

Any advice is welcomed.  
 

My best to everyone,

 

Mel

[John Trier]

Jack Johnson did own a wall mount Jandus wire mount fan.  In my cardboard box of pre digital pictures I’ll have a picture of it.  I don’t remember the rectangle casting opening in the motor housing.   

[Michael Rathberger]

I thought Jeter? had one at one point. I remember a post on the old site. There was also a Jandus pancake in the galleries. No one had seen another. Is there a frame behind the covers for the mounts? 

[Mike Petree]

42 minutes ago, Michael Rathberger said:

I thought Jeter? had one at one point. I remember a post on the old site. There was also a Jandus pancake in the galleries. No one had seen another. Is there a frame behind the covers for the mounts? 

You're right Jeter did. Through a series of events the base came to me. I still have it. Pretty sure it had a ball motor on it but I never saw it.

[Russ Huber]

Edited September 10, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

Mel, what is stamped in your tags?

[Russ Huber]

If your tags are stamped The Jandus Electric Co., your real deal desk fan dates 1909-1910. Adams & Bagnall absorbed the Jandus concern late 10 after the CEO Jotham Potter died same year. AB tagged wire mount DC ball motor desk fans would have been introduced in 11. 

My impression is Jandus and AB/Jandus manufactured the ball motor in house, and continued to do so 1901-20. In 21 National Screw & Tack absorbed Adams & Bagnall. The wire mount was introduced in 09.

[Russ Huber]

1 hour ago, Michael Rathberger said:

There was also a Jandus pancake in the galleries. No one had seen another.

Notice it is not a GE manufactured motor. Please correct me if I am wrong. And if it was a GE cake motor, the fan would be incorrect. The wire mount was introduced in 09 well beyond GE cake motor manufacture. 

My impression is Jandus/AB-Jandus never tooled up to manufacture a brushless AC induction fan motor. They outsourced them. Bernie's gyro was his baby and the big capital for the concern.

[Russ Huber]

Holey buckets, I totally missed a detail when I posted the last images. Whoever owns this fan has a dandy. That is a centrifugal start motor, not a shaded pole motor like the GE cakes. This is speculation, but I would bet my last dollar Jandus and AB/Jandus after outsourcing from GE for their AC motors, outsourced their following AC fan motors from a Cleveland motor manufacturer. 

This fan would date 09-10 based on the wire mounting and the center guard ring supports the Jandus Electric Co. This throws a wrench in the works as it supports Jandus outsourcing from another motor manufacturer for an AC motor other than GE. GE was still manufacturing their centrifugal start motors in 10. The 1911 GE fan motor bulletin announced discontinuing the centrifugal start mechanism in their BMY fan motors.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Mel Lagarde]

I cannot thank all of you enough for responding to my post.   I appreciate the time each of you have put into researching this for me.  
 

Russ,

Here are the pics of the upper and lower tags.  
 

This is what makes membership in the AFCA and these forums so indispensable to collecting and learning more about our hobby.  
 

Much appreciated 

Mel

[Geoff Dunaway]

 That central motor casting looks as if it would also have been used in the Cee Frame  oscillating desk fan. Can't tell from the pictures if the upper mounting post was ever machined or not

[Steve Rockwell]

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Steve Rockwell

[Russ Huber]

2 hours ago, Geoff Dunaway said:

 That central motor casting looks as if it would also have been used in the Cee Frame  oscillating desk fan. Can't tell from the pictures if the upper mounting post was ever machined or not

I saw that as well. It appears they even included the C-frame mounting in the woodcut. I wouldn't put it past Bernie back then to use the same motor casting for the oscillator and the stationary wire mount DC.

[Russ Huber]

1911 advertisement AB/Jandus DC gyro DC ball motors. Check out the rectangular rear motor vents. The image keep in mind may date earlier than 11.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Russ Huber

[Russ Huber]

49 minutes ago, Steve Rockwell said:

 

Mel, I had to look up the word "felicitous". But ya, that is you. It is a pleasure researching for you as you are always so gracious and appreciative. Enjoy your toy. 🙂

[Russ Huber]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:16 AM, John Trier said:

Jack Johnson did own a wall mount Jandus wire mount fan.  In my cardboard box of pre digital pictures I’ll have a picture of it.  I don’t remember the rectangle casting opening in the motor housing.   

This slipped my mind, and it just popped back in 10 minutes ago. AB/Jandus equipment.

[Mel Lagarde]

I posted this hoping to get some answers from members more experienced and educated than me.   That hope was fulfilled.  Thank you, Russ, Steve, Geoff, Mike, Michael, and John.  
 

This fan always concerned me.  I never could confirm the authenticity.   Thank for helping me with this one.  I even cleaned my bench to post the pics. 
 

Mel
 

 

[John Trier]

I have so far failed to find pictures of the fan I mentioned above.  It makes some sense Mel, that your motor, blade and cage are the same fan.  Here’s a little more history behind it.  It was found at a low end farm auction north of Des Moines. I have a vague memory that the voltage was 32 volts, but I could be wrong.  A telephone collector in Iowa bought it for next to nothing and sold it to me.  After some years I traded it to Jack Johnson.   It was 1996 because I remember Dole vs. Clinton going on at the same time.  It makes sense to me that a collector would turn a wall mount into a desk fan as the wall mount version was sort of a snooze 💤 by comparison.   I probably would have done the same thing. 

[Mel Lagarde]

Hi John

 

You are so kind to write all this to me and thank you so much for that background but I wonder if that was a different fan.   Jack had so many.  
 

I had Jack’s impressive collection already and one day he brings this fan to me and says, “do you want this?” He just gives it to me.  That just indicated to me what he thought of it.  It was just as it sits today but it did not have a switch.  Jack said he did not know what to make of it or if it was “right”.   He said he thought it rare enough to collect and not seen often.  I accepted his offer and put it in my collection.   It sat there for years until I found a switch for it and it runs fantastic but I never knew if it was right until now.  
 

Mel

[Chris Campbell]

Mel, It is a very nice fan. Paul Graves made a comment that there are so many variations of Jandus Ball when looking at mine and minutes later someone brought him another that was even different internally which he had not seen. That always stuck with me.

No idea about prior wall mount possibility, but with mounts on side plates it appears as a true wire mount ball and that alone is unique.

The opening for brushes are nice. With the retaining pins holding cartridge can brushes be accessed through opening or would covers still need to be removed?

Edited September 13, 2023 by Chris Campbell

[Roger Borg]

On 9/13/2023 at 7:27 AM, Mel Lagarde said:

Hi John

 

You are so kind to write all this to me and thank you so much for that background but I wonder if that was a different fan.   Jack had so many.  
 

I had Jack’s impressive collection already and one day he brings this fan to me and says, “do you want this?” He just gives it to me.  That just indicated to me what he thought of it.  It was just as it sits today but it did not have a switch.  Jack said he did not know what to make of it or if it was “right”.   He said he thought it rare enough to collect and not seen often.  I accepted his offer and put it in my collection.   It sat there for years until I found a switch for it and it runs fantastic but I never knew if it was right until now.  
 

Mel

Hi Mel- 

By chance do you have resistance readings at the motor terminals that you could post or email (rogerborg@hotmail.com).

Thanks...

[Steve Rockwell]

"Looking for an original and ideally complete, unrestored (or restored) jandus roundball."

     Looks as if Roger scored...

 

Application Filed 15 Apr 1912           Patented 8 Oct 1912

                                      

Edited November 11, 2024 by Steve Rockwell

[Roger Borg]

5 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said:

"Looking for an original and ideally complete, unrestored (or restored) jandus roundball."

     Looks as if Roger scored...

 

Application Filed 15 Apr 1912           Patented 8 Oct 1912

                                      

You're practically the only one to have taken note of that post...

[Roger Borg]

Can anyone chime in about the scarcity of Mel's roundball wire mount?

Were these significantly more uncommon than the roundball tabfoot?

Thanks...

[Nicholas Denney]

On 9/10/2023 at 3:22 PM, Russ Huber said:

Holey buckets, I totally missed a detail when I posted the last images. Whoever owns this fan has a dandy. That is a centrifugal start motor, not a shaded pole motor like the GE cakes. This is speculation, but I would bet my last dollar Jandus and AB/Jandus after outsourcing from GE for their AC motors, outsourced their following AC fan motors from a Cleveland motor manufacturer. 

This fan would date 09-10 based on the wire mounting and the center guard ring supports the Jandus Electric Co. This throws a wrench in the works as it supports Jandus outsourcing from another motor manufacturer for an AC motor other than GE. GE was still manufacturing their centrifugal start motors in 10. The 1911 GE fan motor bulletin announced discontinuing the centrifugal start mechanism in their BMY fan motors.

I have a hard time believing that's not a custom pancake motor made for them... 'they' all but completely ripped off the aesthetic design of one if not. I'd have to guess that Jandus wanted the brushless motor of a pancake, but thought the standard pattern of the pancake motor was too comically big for a desk fan, while being OK on a gyro. It wouldn't be the only awkward looking motor that made it onto the gyros but mot the desk fans. Can you imagine hawking a desk fan with one of those babies hanging out the back?