Evan Atkinson Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) No, I don't have one. I do have this interesting first-year (1909 I think) Hunter re-badged BMY centrifugal start switch 2-rivet model. I just learned the cage as it came to me is correct, which I find neat, since it's so clearly a Diehl design. I think I just read on the old forum boards that the Sidewinders started for GE in 1909 and six wings started in 1910, which got me wondering: was there a Hunter residential (six-wing) sidewinder oscillator offered with this same cage in 1910? I find this one is rather bling-y with the cage being somewhat different from the standard GE cage. Edited December 5, 2023 by Evan Atkinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) I see a kidney to the right..... GENERAL ELECTRIC-------- Bulletins, Instruction Sheets, Price Lists, Catalogs 1895-1952 https://new.afcaforum.com/index.php?/topic/592-general-electric-bulletins-instruction-sheets-price-lists-catalogs-1895-1952/#comment-3705 "was there a Hunter residential (six-wing) sidewinder oscillator" [?] I'm not convinced there ever was a sidewinder residence fan, G.E. or otherwise... I'd actually be pleased to be disabused of that notion... Edited December 5, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjun Saini Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I’ve seen the late version of yours with the later ge style cage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cunningham Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 One of our members has a GE Sidewinder with Westinghouse tags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 The following was written in 1994... Richard L. Webb... One block over from me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Edited December 6, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Edited December 6, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Atkinson Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 Russ, thanks for posting those images. Very cool. I felt quite certain that Hunter did offer a Sidewinder with this cage, as your catalog and advertising images confirm. Hunter must have had one heck of a Diehl going with that company. All Hunter AC models are made in-house, but all their DC models are Diehls, re-badged as Hunter. Makes sense then, that Diehl would supply Hunter with their style of cages for the desk fans! Thanks also to you Steve for the great info you provided. Seeing those old advertisements and catalogs are invaluable. Now two questions remain: 1) Were the Hunter Sidewinders ever offered in "Residential" form (six wings), and 2) with this particular style of Diehl cage? Methinks it unlikely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Postscript: I'm trying to wig this one out... Is it this lineup, with that four-strutted desk fan at the bottom, the explanation for attributing Diehl construction? Edited December 6, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Loren Haroldson 3/06/2012. It was 09. I can confirm... Directories were not updated every year and we also have to consider that the info would have been collected several months beforehand for printing. I'm too lazy to dig right now, but in an ad in Electrical World Volume 53 # 21 from May 09 shows the Hunter made by GE with an oscillator with an Eck like gear on the side. In 07 (Linkhouse book) VP of design Rice called designers together and challenged them to design an oscillator. Winning entry would be made in Pittsfield with a GE logo. Wood was the winner. Is it a Wood patent? I actually ran across this while rutting through some R and M paper...Actually it could have very well be 08 but can't confirm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Any front mount struts seen on a 2 rivet wing blade Hunter BMY? Edited December 6, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 21 minutes ago, Russ Huber said: Any front mount struts seen on a 2 rivet wing blade Hunter BMY? The advertisement below dates June of 09. Front mount GE struts were in 1909. Must be a front mount strut Hunter BMY out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Atkinson Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 18 hours ago, Steve Rockwell said:Postscript: I'm trying to wig this one out... Is it this lineup, with that four-strutted desk fan at the bottom, the explanation for attributing Diehl construction? Correct. I should have said, all the AC ceiling and desk fans are Hunter /GE supplied, but the DC ceiling fan models and the cages on the desk fans are all Diehl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) Thanks Evan. I zoomed the desk fan image lower right but couldn't draw conclusions as to the maker but, with the four struts, knew it was not a GE product of that time. What I'm most interested in are residence fans, and since so much of my exposure is to GE stuff, I've looked hard into first GE residence fan production, and have yet to find a confirmed example of sidewinder residence. As you see in the second Post of this thread, oscillating residence fans were first catalogued 1912, by which time GE was whole-heartedly into the kidney oscillator, albeit already (apparently) looking for its replacement. I have seen pics of sidewinders with six-wing fan blades, but to date none were declared and confirmed as slow-motor units, the deciding factor in the assignation. What I initially hoped might come from this thread is an example with photos, and if it were Hunter so much the better. One explanation for such a beast, which would conform to other known conditions, is if GE provided sidewinder units to Hunter when GE "upgraded" to the kidney and wished to consume an oversupply of sidewinder parts... for which possibility I know of no supporting evidence. Since I have wondered about the interactions and business relationships GE had with various "competitors" I was pleased to discover Mr. Hunter's visits to Schenectady... In the sense that GE was in the business of producing electrical equipment (about one-fourth of everything used in this country, forgetting the international market,) when they produced a motor which was used by such a competitor it was not necessarily harmful to their own fan sales, so far as I know... But, in terms of sharing, I found it intriguing that GE shared with Hunter in the manner they did two items unique to them: the loop/handle frame, and even more so the variant of the famous monogram. The only reason I can imagine there not having been a legal interference is that there was an agreement... the case could be made that "HE" using that monogram tangentially reflected and publicized GE's. Personally, I couldn't buy into such a theory. And what did Hunter bring to the deal to merit this special use of GE's proprietary logo? The only potential answer I came up with is that Hunter designed the loop/handle and a sharing arrangement was reached, and there's not a shred of evidence for such a theory so far as I know, this is the sheerest speculation. To me, the concept of the sturdy frame within which the fan motor rotates, with its integral carrying handle, is worthy of a design patent, and its absence has bothered me... But back to sidewinder residence, the interesting subject Evan introduced... I think I just read on the old forum boards that the Sidewinders started for GE in 1909 and six wings started in 1910, which got me wondering: was there a Hunter residential (six-wing) sidewinder oscillator offered with this same cage in 1910? The question becomes whether there were any oscillating residence fans prior to 1912... The unit photographed below combines four categories of collecting, (FWEW, BMY, residence, first GE oscillator) giving it an extra appeal, but at least when they were posted the motor was not confirmed to run at residence speed--- that's how I remember it, any way..... Edited December 7, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 4:19 PM, Russ Huber said: All the lengthy discussion aside, 1910 electrical trade (book link below) does not support a Hunter 12" 6 wing residence oscillator. And Hunter became more competitive in the fan motor market with a DC fan motor line with some arrangement with Diehl starting 09 it appears. No 12" residence oscillator in 10 makes it highly unlikely in 09. I can't find jack in the books yet explaining the Hunter-Diehl connection. Electrical Review and Western Electrician - Google Books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 1911 electrical trade is announcing no changes to the 1910 Hunter fan motor line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 1912 electrical trade Hunter fan motor line with still no mention of a 12" 6 wing residence desk fan. New York Review of the Telegraph and Telephone and Electrical Journal - Google Books Edited December 7, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) What is real interesting, is Hunter displaying an older image, or is Hunter marketing a kidney oscillator for real in 1916? It "appears" somewhere between 1913 and 1916 Hunter put their first 12" 6 wing oscillator on the market? Or did they place a 12" 6 wing oscillator on the market? Fred's video with a 12" 6 wing kidney oscillator with Hunter badge posted above has profile struts. Anyone else have one to validate it? Edited December 7, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) "If" electrical trade is not in error based on my trail of posts above to this post, it "appears" the first Hunter 12" 6 wing residence desk fan did not hit the market until 1916. 1914-1916 Hunter fan motor offerings are at the bottom of each cropped page below. A six-wing blade is first mentioned in 1916. The fan motor data from various manufacturers below is SUBMITTED by the manufacturer and entered. Edited December 8, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 10:40 AM, Russ Huber said: Any front mount struts seen on a 2 rivet wing blade Hunter BMY? 1908 Hunter Electric 12" BMY Desk Fan Restored Antique Electric Brass | eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) Edited December 8, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Members like Steve Rockwell and other research nuts when time permits, please give it your best shot to find advertisements of Hunter 12" & 16" desk fans spanning 1913-1916. Sometimes those advertisements are hidden away in unlikely books. The advertisements below date 17. Was Hunter marketing kidney oscillators up until 1916?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) Electrical Record trade books 1914 & 15 do not support a 6 wing residence Hunter kidney oscillator. Nor does electrical trade support one prior. Are there more 6 wing Hunter Kidney examples out there other than the one Fred Berry posted in past? Edited December 8, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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