Lane Shirey Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Hello everyone, I have 2 12” Westinghouse Tanks with bad speed coils. Since they’re such a simple coil, I want to try my hand at a rewind. Does anybody have specs on the coils? Gauge size, number of turns, etc Also, is there a difference between the 100-110v and 110-120v coils? And what is the difference? Coil gauge size/ Number of winds/ Number of laminates. I have noticed that some tanks have a few more laminates than others. I’m only looking for real data, not guesses. Thanks in advance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 This information is based on actual lamination count and metered ohm reading of a coil out of a 100-110 VAC box project Victor 12" tank. 21 laminations, and the coil was metered at 5 ohms. I think that if you took a group of 5 tanks you would find roughly the same number of laminations and ohm reading. I think you would be safe between 4.5 to 5 ohms. Exceeding 5 ohms may risk slowing the fan down to engage the start windings during low speed operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 Thanks Russ. Any chance you know what gauge magnet wire they use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lane Shirey said: Thanks Russ. Any chance you know what gauge magnet wire they use? I think the Newcity and a number of other members use 26-gauge magnet wire on examples like the Emerson coils. I still haven't wound one.... yet. The tank coil is kind of a no brainer I would think. Just need to take the dimensions of the old coil, make a winding jig, just one single wind with no taps. Edited December 7, 2023 by Russ Huber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 Well, I don’t want to go through the effort using the wrong wire, so I don’t want to guess. I know the Emersons use 26 awg but I don’t want to assume the tanks are the same. Anybody know for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 19 hours ago, Lane Shirey said: Well, I don’t want to go through the effort using the wrong wire, so I don’t want to guess. I know the Emersons use 26 awg but I don’t want to assume the tanks are the same. Anybody know for sure? The wire will work, it is not the diameter of a pencil. Winding the coil beyond 5 ohms would not be wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Still looking for the correct gauge size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Andersen Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 Lane I have a 12 inch Hawthorn and a 16 inch Dayton I've been working on. Both have 21 laminations and I test at 2.4-2.5 ohms. The wire diameter on both is consistent with 25 AWG. Measures in .045 and .044 mm range and .0179- .0180" range. Don't have the number of turns for you as the coils are both in decent shape. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 On 12/6/2023 at 9:33 AM, Russ Huber said: 21 laminations, and the coil was metered at 5 ohms. I think you would be safe between 4.5 to 5 ohms. 14 minutes ago, Trevor Andersen said: Both have 21 laminations and I test at 2.4-2.5 ohms. What would be nice if others who have metered their tank coil ohm findings to share their findings. My Victor tank was functioning fine on both speeds prior to disassembly. Maybe there is a happy medium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted December 9, 2023 Author Share Posted December 9, 2023 Thanks Trevor, that helps. I’m curious how the voltage ranges on the tags affect the speed coil specs or stator design and construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Michael Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 55 minutes ago, Lane Shirey said: Thanks Trevor, that helps. I’m curious how the voltage ranges on the tags affect the speed coil specs or stator design and construction. Lane, I can't promise when, but I can try to pull a few here and measure for you too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hoatson Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 I used to make new laminations for tank fans and still have the CAD file if anyone wants to make some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Andersen Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Well I just tested the Hawthorn for the first time. It runs on all the speeds fine but there is no difference in the speeds. The tag says 100-110v. Could it be because it is on 120v the speeds wont vary much? When I switch to the low speed almost nothing changes, my watts actually go up by 1-1.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campbell Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 47 minutes ago, Dave Hoatson said: I used to make new laminations for tank fans and still have the CAD file if anyone wants to make some. What metal did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rathberger Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) Trevor, the answer is yes. Put it in a variac and dial the volts down, you'll get a difference. Edited December 9, 2023 by Michael Rathberger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Andersen Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Michael Rathberger said: Trevor, the answer is yes. Put it in a variac and dial the boilts down, you'll get a difference. It's strange because my 12" R&M standard tank has two distinct speeds and it is 100-110v. I dont want to take it apart to test the speed coil though. Edited December 9, 2023 by Trevor Andersen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rathberger Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 It's hit or miss. I had two 16" westy tanks 100 to 110. One did, one didn't at the wall outlet. On the variac the other had two speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Andersen Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) I ran it on a variac at voltages from 85-120 and the speed and numbers dont change on the kill a watt except for the watts going up by around 1 when the low speed is on. All I can think of doing that is if the speed coil is engaged on all speeds somehow by some exposed current. Cant find anything though and it was revarnished and wrapped. Does it matter which motor wire connects to which part on the switch or which speed coil wire? Edited December 9, 2023 by Trevor Andersen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rathberger Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Not to my knowledge. You could try to swap switches between fans and see how the no change reacts then you would know if switch is problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Trevor Andersen said: It's strange because my 12" R&M standard tank has two distinct speeds and it is 100-110v. I don't want to take it apart to test the speed coil though. You don't have to take it apart. With fan unplugged, the switch in the off position, take your insulator cover off, touch one meter probe to where one coil wire is connected on the inline, the other meter probe in contact with the second low speed selection. That is where your second coil wire is connected. This should give you the coil ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Coil ohms from two 100-110 VAC fully functional 12" tanks with 2 distinct speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Coil ohms from a 111-120 VAC fully functional 12" tank with 2 distinct speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 I did recommend 26 gauge wire to Lane and I see Trevor measured his tank wire at 25 gauge, so I guess I was close but no cigar. Good luck, Lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Shirey Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 Actually Russ you said that Newcity uses the 26 awg on Emersons. I appreciate your feedback, but that has nothing to do with a Tank. Please don’t act like I ignored your information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hoatson Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 On 12/9/2023 at 11:33 AM, Chris Campbell said: What metal did you use? I used an electrical steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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