James Landry Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 The handle (and oscillating knob) appears to be in much better condition than mine. Yesterday when I primed the fan blade, I noticed one blade had a little bend in it. I straightened it as good as I could, but I fear the "unbalanced blade syndrome" will be plaguing me. Also, I've attempted to find a resto thread for this unit, unsuccessfully. Perhaps someone can direct me to that? I need answers pertinent to questions I've posed in the above posts before I can reassemble. Also, do the fiber washers get greased or oiled? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 The handle (and oscillating knob) appears to be in much better condition than mine. Yesterday when I primed the fan blade, I noticed one blade had a little bend in it. I straightened it as good as I could, but I fear the "unbalanced blade syndrome" will be plaguing me. Also, I've attempted to find a resto thread for this unit, unsuccessfully. Perhaps someone can direct me to that? I need answers pertinent to questions I've posed in the above posts before I can reassemble. Also, do the fiber washers get greased or oiled? What is acceptable for motor shaft end play? Mine has about 1/4", but all washers look perfect. Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 After picking slowly away at all necessary repairs needed, I am nearly ready to reassemble the R&M but am held up by my old nemesis- FIBER WASHERS. The lack of proper washer spacers on my 1939 Dremel forced me to pack it away 4 years ago. After going through MANY modern "equivalent" plastic spacers, I have realized that I can find none at all that will work. I am in the same predicament with this fan rotor! I spent hours looking for FIBER rotor spacers online- a JOKE- and even driving around this area (a HUB of industry!!!) for over two hours looking for these items, all to no avail! Upon carefully removing the washers from the rotorshaft for cleaning, of course one had to snap in half. Where in blue blazes can I locate adequate 3/8" spacers (and smaller ones for the other shafts) that WILL ACTUALLY WORK????? Regard: Thanks for any leads!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 I have tons of pics to share, but would like to change the title name of this thread. How do I go about doing that? If not possible, that's ok, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carmody Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCJV1DY8?tag=bravesoftwa04-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&language=en_US Hardware stores have them too.Ace,etc Edited August 25, 2023 by Paul Carmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 18 hours ago, Paul Carmody said: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BCJV1DY8?tag=bravesoftwa04-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&language=en_US Hardware stores have them too.Ace,etc Thanks Paul! I won't get these, as they are metric and as a matter of fact, that's ALL I've ever seen around this area are metric anything. I found out by trying some on my '39 Dremel, along with nylon, plastic, steel and every other disc under the sun, all fruitless metric endeavors. They initially worked, but would slow down the rotations after a few minutes, even binding. The metric size fit super sloppy on the shafts, slapping around, creating drag. I suppose a much bigger fan motor would overcome this type of friction... HOWEVER, I'd forgotten these were called "paper" and this led me to other "paper fibre" discs. I actually found 3/8"×5/8" "hard fiber washers" from McMaster-Carr that hopefully will fit the shaft as intended and work. We shall see. But again Paul, thanks for the lead! I think it may have turned the gears of solution in the right direction!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Here is a little video depicting "proof of function" for the heavily repaired switch: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, James Landry said: Here is a little video depicting "proof of function" for the heavily repaired switch: Ok. Never mind. Guess videos won't post. I will add images later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Adams Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 As far as the cord, its your fan, it doesn't matter what others think. I personally prefer the old two prong plug, BUT I always make sure I mark the neutral prong with a small strip of white tape. Plug the fan in with the switch off & get a voltage squealer (detector). If it squeals or lights up by the cage or motor, flip the plug over & retry it. If that solves it, put the strip of white tape on the side of the plug plugged into the larger slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Stan Adams said: As far as the cord, its your fan, it doesn't matter what others think. I personally prefer the old two prong plug, BUT I always make sure I mark the neutral prong with a small strip of white tape. Plug the fan in with the switch off & get a voltage squealer (detector). If it squeals or lights up by the cage or motor, flip the plug over & retry it. If that solves it, put the strip of white tape on the side of the plug plugged into the larger slot. Thanks Stan, but I have decided to put that nice rubber grounded cord I harvested from a true Las Vegas Bally video slot machine on it, looked almost identical to the original cord and even though this one is 3 wire, I can fit it through the hole in the stump with the grommet- tight- but it will go. I like having the added safety feature anyway. The old style looking plug I bought looks cheap and has CHINA stamped on it. No bueno. I do have a question about the head anchor shaft. Were these welded straight out, or at an angle and was the cavity packed with felt where it goes through the neck housing? Regard: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 The shaft does not hit the inner neck housing when it pivots, but it is close. If it is bent, would it behoove me to attempt to straighten it? Looks like I probably could, BUUUT... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 IT IS ALIVVVE!!! Plugged her in and gave it a try. Started right up immediately, then tried lower speeds- worked flawlessly on all speeds!. Only thing is that to me, it seems a tad slower than I would have thought, put rpm tester on it and was reading around 1,050rpm on high at the tip of the blade, roughly 650 on medium and 325 on slow. Thought they were supposed to be around 1,600rpms on high? Could be misplacement of rotor shims (the bane of my existence!!!), even though I took pics, one shim was half gone- maybe? Had to replace 3 (even drilling mini holes on some, like the originals), and I stuck one more on the shaft, as the end play was nearly 1/4", now only an 1/8", perhaps too tight? I'm going to take that extra shim out and see what it does. The oscillator seems to work smoothly and quietly and motor is VERY quiet, however, the choke seems to have a VERY light buzz- is that NORMAL? Also, choke runs very cool after 45 minutes, so it's good, I guess, but motor gets a bit warm, not piping hot, but too warm for my tastes. Gonna pull it apart and remove that extra shin and see if helps. Another issue are the fan blades themselves. Didn't really notice it till I stripped the paint (after a few attempts at repainting, runs, orange peel, etc...), but 2 blades must have been creased in the past, and another bent way out of whack. Spent a couple hours last night attempting to straighten them, got it close, but still a tad off. Not sure if it's even possible for me to get it much closer. I think Stan said he might have parts for these R&M's? Could use a good blade, as I know I will spend about 50 hours on these blades trying to "get them right! Perhaps if he was willing to part with one (mine is aluminum- looks pretty good as is, but not polished yet, but will never look right with all the gings, pings and dents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 Not sure why the pics are sideways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carmody Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 (edited) The fans I run in the house for my use are 2 prong.The ones I do for others are 3.Vintage Wire and Supply,,,is where I get the old style 3 prong.They have brown or black. https://vintagewireandsupply.com/ Edited September 1, 2023 by Paul Carmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 32 minutes ago, Paul Carmody said: The fans I run in the house for my use are 2 prong.The ones I do for others are 3.Vintage Wire and Supply,,,is where I get the old style 3 prong.They have brown or black. https://vintagewireandsupply.com/ NICE!!! Once I get the bugs worked out on this, THAT'S THE ONE!!!!! Excited, now!!! Do you know what RPM's this is supposed to be turning? Like I said, just seems a smidge slow to me, but I have no clue. Out of all the items and mechanisms I've brought back from the dead, this seems to be a horse of a completely different color to me. Never even really knew anybody who's had one apart and I feel like a blind man grappling around without a dog or cane. Seems like this project has turned into a never ending and mildly expensive odyssey (I had nothing to work with on hand, so had to buy even the basics), but the most frustratingly enjoyable endeavor I've ever attended to, but I do need some guidance, tho. Thanks a million for any responses!!!!! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carmody Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 (edited) I haven’t work on that particular style fan so I can’t say as to the RPM.1/8 is plenty of play.Is the blade turning free when spun by hand? It can become quite addictive.Put It all together and it runs is exciting to me each time,being the pessimist that I am.After the first one I did ,I had to do another,then another then,,,,,,,!Lets just say I now have more than a lifetime of fans to restore.I like looking at them ,but the restoration process is what I like the most.Then I give them away.So far. Edited September 1, 2023 by Paul Carmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, Paul Carmody said: I haven’t work on that particular style fan so I can’t say as to the RPM.1/8 is plenty of play.Is the blade turning free when spun by hand? Yes it does spin freely, yesterday before I ever applied power, it also spun freely with blades attached, but would stop quicker than now after being hard finger spun, maybe to the count of 3 or 4. With the blade on and with a good hard finger spin now, it will rotate and stop on a slow count to 5. Bladeless shaft twists easily with 2 fingers and spins around a few times, feels right. If I do remove one shim, the 1/4" endplay will be back- far too much, I presume? Or does this rotor self centerize with the extra shaft end play? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carmody Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 (edited) It won’t necessarily center itself.The blade when running will push it back if that’s where the slack is.Or if you tilt it.And when it oscillates the shaft will move back and forth making a clacking noise.It can be as tight as 1/16. If I’m taking what your saying correct ,that seems tight .If you spin it hard it should spin for several seconds. I hope someone with experience with that model chimes in!I don’t want to mislead you ,but the front case may be out or alignment.It doesn’t take much.You can loosen it and spin the shaft and slowly tighten checking for any binding alternating screw tightening .I don’t know how the bearing is?Fixed or floating?The early R+Ms had a set screw in the bearing housing to loosen the bearing when putting on the case.I primarily work on Westinghouse’s ,so if Im off base feel free to make corrections R+M Dudes. Edited September 1, 2023 by Paul Carmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, Paul Carmody said: It won’t necessarily center itself.The blade when running will push it back if that’s where the slack is.Or if you tilt it.And when it oscillates the shaft will move back and forth making a clacking noise.It can be as tight as 1/16. If I’m taking what your saying correct ,that seems tight .If you spin it hard it should spin for several seconds. I hope someone with experience with that model chimes in!I don’t want to mislead you ,but the front case may be out or alignment.It doesn’t take much.You can loosen it and spin the shaft and slowly tighten checking for any binding alternating screw tightening .I don’t know how the bearing is?Fixed or floating?The early R+Ms had a set screw in the case to loosen the bearing when putting on the case.I primarily work on Westinghouse’s ,so if Im off base feel free to make corrections R+M Dudes. Thanks! I just rechecked rpm's on shaft itself, a consistant 1,150. After letting it run about 20 minutes and shutting it down, it seems to turn with slightly more force with a finger spin. I have attempted to adjust the cover till I'm blue in the face, with very little, if any difference in shaft rotation. Think I'm going to pull the motor apart and check the shims. I have a nasty gut feeling that somethjng is amiss there. Maybe some R&M guy with about the same model can show an exploded view of the rotor with the correct shims and placements on the shafts??? THAT would lay to rest any doubts in my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Carmody Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 (edited) Is It tight with the oscillator arm disconnected. Edited September 1, 2023 by Paul Carmody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Paul Carmody said: Is It tight with the oscillator arm disconnected. Nope. Makes no difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 2, 2023 Author Share Posted September 2, 2023 I was able to get the blades to be way more in balance than what they were, at least it doesn't want to walk away on the floor like is was doing, but still kind of wobbles. Another 40 hours on that, I expect (for reals). How do I pm Stan Adams, as he indicated he may have parts for this? Can't seem to find a pm function button. A good blade assembly would save me hours of headache. Aside from that annoying wobble, this thing appears to be functioning pretty nice and throwing great air, with all speeds working perfectly and oscillator running smoothly-aside from the blade making the head and associated parts vibrate a pinch. (it is a 16", NOT 17" like I first posted.🙄) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Adams Posted September 2, 2023 Share Posted September 2, 2023 James I probably have blades, but your best bet is to balance what you have. If one is out of clock or bent, a Dubro RC plane prop balancer will work. The easiest to get one back in clock is with a strobe, but a prop balancer will dodo work as the blades closest together will be the heaviest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Landry Posted September 3, 2023 Author Share Posted September 3, 2023 Thank you sir! I just spent the past 3 hours out here in the garage attempting to balance it, mocking it up and rotating it while eyeballing particular spots and just kept slowly massaging the creases and folds out of each blade (by hand), but one blade was way out, it was the metal hub itself that was bent. Took some might, but it came back. Was WAY smoother, I heard a light "tic" noise inside the motor housing and rpm's increased-something must've seated- and after an hour of constant running, oscillating & varying speeds, motor was barely luke-warm to the touch (95° in garage)! Been tweaking the blades, but bedtime now. Very close, though! Another 37 hours and I think I'll have it! Thank you very much for responding!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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