Russ Huber Posted September 15 Author Share Posted September 15 40 minutes ago, Anthony Lindsey said: Thanks! It was a dark stormy night, and I was trespassing looking thru old buildings. Came across one deep in the woods and once I got thru the briars and brambles managed to get inside. Found a secret trap door into a Speakeasy/brothel and after I picked the 3 locks managed to get it open. Squeezed past the skeletons at the card table with the half empty bottle of bathtub gin.......... tripped over the cone base Meston....... Cool. Nothing mundane about that. Thanks for sharing the images of the Meston with me. Eye candy for the boys down the road. Fact Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kovar Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 56 minutes ago, Anthony Lindsey said: ...story... ...pretty mundane. Bought a fan off the internet,... or...... It was a dark stormy night and I was trespassing looking thru old buildings. Came across one deep in the woods and once I got thru the briars and brambles managed to get inside. Found a secret trap door into a Speakeasy/brothel and after I picked the 3 locks managed to get it open. Squeezed past the skeletons at the card table with the half empty bottle of bathtub gin.......... tripped over the cone base meston....... IMO, the latter scenario sounds more plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 Check out the construction and the diameter of the mounting wires of the early Lloyd Davis auction guard posted by Curt Davis and the guard on the Searchlight example guard posted by Curt Davis sent to him by an anonymous contributor. Compare to Anthony's guard example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 1902-03 R&M guard electrical trade image compared to Anthony's example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 1901. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 Notice Anthony's "S" wires are mounted into the FRONT of the center guard ring correct with the 01 electrical trade image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 (edited) The early 99-00(?) Searchlight blade wings had the screws instead of rivets. Edited September 16 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lindsey Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 excellent research! Thanks Russ!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 Good job Russ. Very similar but not exact. It’s my belief this great cage was offered up to specifications supplied by the companies using it. Cast brass spreaders vary in their location, struts, and materials. There’s an example of this cage in steel. Dayton, Sprague, R&M, Paragon all used this cage and all are slightly different to their specs. Very common even today. In heavy woodworking tools (shapers, big planers, etc), all of them are made in the same building in Taiwan, but to slightly different specs. Jet, Powermatic, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 Russ’s pics reveal something else. Every cage like this I’ve seen has the S wires taking a hard right turn into the front big ring and the also the center ring. Russ’s pictures show something different. Maybe the cage evolved a little over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 (edited) Yesterday I was perusing all this along parallel lines with you Russ... The main point of focus I'll have to get this evening when I should have time to spare... Even the guard requires more time than I presently have... The blade with screws raised questions yesterday; this morning I was able to retrieve the original 1899 image and am now entirely satisfied that screws were legitimately employed... However, compare the spacing, and you may agree with me that those could possibly be later blades refastened with screws... and so I'm back to my original contention... Anyone ??? [transition.... ?] Edited September 16 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 23 minutes ago, Steve Rockwell said: Yesterday I was perusing all this along parallel lines with you Russ... The main point of focus I'll have to get this evening when I should have time to spare... Even the guard requires more time than I presently have... The blade with screws raised questions yesterday; this morning I was able to retrieve the original 1899 image and am now entirely satisfied that screws were legitimately employed... However, compare the spacing, and you may agree with me that those could possibly be later blades refastened with screws... and so I'm back to my original contention... Anyone ??? [transition.... ?] Anthony's model below with rivets. Does the above model on the left with ornate carry handle have its original blade, or was an earlier Searchlight model blade put on it? Or, was 01 transitional for an R&M blade mounting screws to rivets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 1 hour ago, John Trier said: Russ’s pics reveal something else. Every cage like this I’ve seen has the S wires taking a hard right turn into the front big ring and the also the center ring. Russ’s pictures show something different. Maybe the cage evolved a little over time. John, can you show the rest of the fan? If you are not at liberty to do so, no problem. I am trying to make some sense of guard construction and time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 52 minutes ago, Russ Huber said: John, can you show the rest of the fan? If you are not at liberty to do so, no problem. I am trying to make some sense of guard construction and time period. So, John, can you at least validate the above guard you posted is Identical in construction to Anthony's example? Same diameter wire mounting struts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 3 hours ago, Russ Huber said: So, John, can you at least validate the above guard you posted is Identical in construction to Anthony's example? Same diameter wire mounting struts? The back ring and parallel front ring is 13” in diameter and the center ring is 4 ½”. There are 3 spreaders at 12, 4, & 8 o’clock (only 3 struts). Struts are about 3 ½” long just flat brass, not nearly as cool as the wire struts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 16 Author Share Posted September 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Trier said: The back ring and parallel front ring is 13” in diameter and the center ring is 4 ½”. There are 3 spreaders at 12, 4, & 8 o’clock (only 3 struts). Struts are about 3 ½” long just flat brass, not nearly as cool as the wire struts. These guards below have a high probability to be lollipop guards. Edited September 16 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 18 hours ago, Russ Huber said: Notice Anthony's "S" wires are mounted into the FRONT of the center guard ring correct with the 01 electrical trade image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 (edited) Sprague/Lundell lead the pack for the reinforced guards. Paragon followed in 00. Etc. Etc. The guards from the various manufactures despite being made in factory or from supplier, have construction traits that differ from one another. R&M guards appear to have evolved in a timeline. Edited September 17 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 (edited) Sorry I’m being sneaky Russ, but I made a promise. Here’s my lackluster, humdrum, sister kisser strut. I think we need to operate from the premise that these guards are the best guards ever produced. They were used during the pinnacle of fan design. When quality trumped cost. I’m dating this cage from 1897 to 1900. Various companies ordered them for use on their fans and struts and spreaders were customized per company specifications. If I’m right that dates Anthony’s fan to around 1900. And, obviously, I could be wrong about any and everything that I’m thinking 🤔. Edited September 17 by John Trier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Here’s one with only 1 strut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Trier Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Steel except for the spreaders which are brass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted September 17 Author Share Posted September 17 51 minutes ago, John Trier said: I think we need to operate from the premise that these guards are the best guards ever produced. They were used during the pinnacle of fan design. When quality trumped cost. I’m dating this cage from 1897 to 1900. Various companies ordered them for use on their fans and struts and spreaders were customized per company specifications. If I’m right that dates Anthony’s fan to around 1900. And, obviously, I could be wrong about any and everything that I’m thinking 🤔. Not looking for anybody to be wrong. There was brief period of time that appears to have started with Sprague/Lundell with the beefy guard movement. It is the way for any product or method of marketing. One tends to be the pioneer or path pavor, and then others follow suit to compete in the marketing game. The component on Anthony's fan that would in my opinion bring is closer to the end of 01 season is the ornate handle. R&M had the ornate handle front row and center all over 02 electrical trade models. Not only was it a handle, but it was also the cherry on top of the fan. I can't see R&M leaving that ornate handle out of 00-01 electrical trade if it was new for the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 Russ, What I was digging after, and failed to find, are the accounts referred to here, which seem to be the basis for the pre-1902 d.o.b. for the fan... The artwork, less unreliable than at least some other manufacturer's, little depicts this feature. Of course, Anthony's fan does not have the three-strut system as does this 1905 fan, but the image is illustrative of the rear bearing housing which feature I'm trying to sort. I'd judge that this 1902 image best depicts (of what's posted above) something being there... Would you enlighten us on this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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