Russ Huber Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Russ Huber said: Pattern maker and Patent attorney. You sent me documentation in the past with Kulp involved with electric fans early 90s in past. Whose electric fans early 90s was Kulp involved with? Kulp is on the map with ceiling and column electric fans with the Cresent Electric Co. of Lancaster in 94. There, Kulp is using Brinser's motor patent. The start of the Crescent fan business. Biographical Annals of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania - Google Books 5 May 1890 Jamestown NY Evening Journal 26 Jun 1890 Lancaster Intelligencer Edited April 30, 2023 by Russ Huber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 It seems that between 1886 & 1887 there was a change of address, so during 1886 Kulp left Cherry St. That is also when I first notice listings as D.H. Kulp & Co.—- that statement requires further verification. ~ Steve Rockwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 1891. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 In 1895 The Kulp managed Crescent Electric Co. would have still been in operation I would assume on East Chestnut St. J. P. Williams & Co. (The Globe fan motor) just fired up in Lancaster in 95 on East Chestnut St. Were they next door to each other? Were they in the same building? Kulp was bought out and the plant was moved to Marietta, PA for the 96 fan motor season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 This is an 1886 map, annotated to indicate locations circa 1894/95 1884 Directory Listing 1886 Directory Listing 1888 Directory Listing 1894 Johnson's Electrical Directory The listings suggest that there may have been separation of efforts--- see 1894 factory report with two Crescent listings, addresses next door to each other 1896 Directory Listing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) Good on you, Steve. I forgot about our exchanges in past with directories you shared in past showing Towle in Lancaster prior to Paragon. J. P. William's & Co. (The Globe fan motors) manufactured under Towle's roof. Towle/Globe/Paragon is Fidelity's roots. Brinser was running the Crescent fan motor shop under Kulp's roof on East Chestnut 94-95 for sure. Possibly 96. Nobody so far to the best of my knowledge has the dirt early Crescent CFs under Brinser's initial design. You also have what appears to be validated despite H. Burd Cassel and Edwin Reinhold's purchase of Kulp's fan motor business in 95 with intention of removal, it appears the plant was not removed from Lancaster to Marietta until 97. Crescent's first desk fan was on the market in 96. 1498382696267251000-00560569 (storage.googleapis.com) Edited May 1, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Michael Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Russ Huber said: Good on you, Steve. I forgot about our exchanges in past with directories you shared in past showing Towle in Lancaster prior to Paragon. J. P. William's & Co. (The Globe fan motors) manufactured under Towle's roof. Towle/Globe/Paragon is Fidelity's roots. Brinser was running the Crescent fan motor shop under Kulp's roof on East Chestnut 94-95 for sure. Possibly 96. Nobody so far to the best of my knowledge has the dirt early Crescent CFs under Brinser's initial design. You also have what appears to be validated despite H. Burd Cassel and Edwin Reinhold's purchase of Kulp's fan motor business in 95 with intention of removal, it appears the plant was not removed from Lancaster to Marietta until 97. Crescent's first desk fan was on the market in 96. I was going to comment earlier, but here it is—111-117 Chestnut was ALL ONE BUILIDNG! Brinser is 'Supintendant' here, but Kulp was still owner of Crescent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Edison didn't build his empire on his own. Edison was a magnet to bring in minds to build his empire. Brinser was with little doubt in charge of the electric Crescent fan motor manufacture under Kulp's roof. Brinser brought his electric CF motor patent to Kulp. Kulp said to Brinser, lets make it happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Michael Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 25 minutes ago, Russ Huber said: Edison didn't build his empire on his own. Edison was a magnet to bring in minds to build his empire. Brinser was with little doubt in charge of the electric Crescent fan motor manufacture under Kulp's roof. Brinser brought his electric CF motor patent to Kulp. Kulp said to Brinser, lets make it happen. Kulp was cleary a BUSINESSman first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 In 95 it is claimed only 2 men knew how to wind a motor in Lancaster. Number one is definitely James Brinser. Number two, based on common sense was their competitor J. P. Williams & Co. The question is WHO taught WHO how to wind a motor at the Globe fan motor manufacturer. William's started his business with a motor patent he was a witness to below. When you open the patent link, scroll down to the bottom to the witnesses. My bet was Williams was number 2. 1498394160370735607-00569866 (storage.googleapis.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Steve, what is Towle listed as in the 95-96 directories in Lancaster, please. I can't recall if it was machinery specifically, or if it did include fan manufacture in those two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Russ Huber said: 8 hours ago, Russ Huber said: My bet was Williams was number 2. Russ, I think I'll take some of that betting action... I've never seen the slightest reference to James P. Williams being personally in Lancaster--- 1895-'96 he works out of 42 Dey St. and resides Fifth Ave. Manhattan, profession listed as dynamos, and in 1897 it's motors at 39 Cortlandt St..... I frankly don't believe that article written twenty years later stating that only two men could wind electrical appliances... A lot of stuff gets written about early days, and that one seems a stretch to me, so I'd better let you off the hook on the (almost) sure bet... Not to say that Williams was not electrically savvy, but George C. Towle was not only savvy, but confirmed to be on the spot at that time... And Kulp would be another possibility. Towle was always involved with electricity from this time on, and he's my bet... We're getting a bit wide of the mark..... again... and the Kulp water motor is being obscured by all the side lines... There's a need for sort of an omnibus Lancaster thread to cover all three early fan manufacturers, an impressive number for such a modest-sized city (94th largest in 1890)... Here's another to which I don't give credence; I don't believe 280 men were employed... 25 Aug 1897 Electrical Review So, back to Towle: Let's leave it there. Keep in mind, an 1896 listing is reporting what happened at some point in '95... Consequently, the Stauffers appear at Towle's initial address on E. Chestnut St. in 1897... They subsequently moved the Towle Co. to a facility on Arch St., more suitable to accommodate a larger work force... Plus, there is Stauffer's American Blower Co. to factor in..... to the omnibus thread... Towle and family are listed in the (Jun) 1900 census in Lowell MA. His ultimate Lancaster listing, as an electrician: And for a while Kulp and Brinser bounce back and forth between Lancaster and Marietta... 1896 Marietta Directory It's not clear whether Brinser remained with the Marietta Co., though I read it to be that he got out of there after a brief employment... He died quite young (41), in 1902. By the way, you'll remember I no longer have the access to directories, and this stuff I fortunately plucked a couple years ago and stored in the hard drive... so go easy on the asks... Did I even answer the question(s)? Edited May 2, 2023 by Steve Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Michael Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Russ Huber said: In 95 it is claimed only 2 men knew how to wind a motor in Lancaster. Number one is definitely James Brinser. Number two, based on common sense was their competitor J. P. Williams & Co. The question is WHO taught WHO how to wind a motor at the Globe fan motor manufacturer. . . . But—Who taught THEM? Perhaps early time-ravelers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steve Rockwell said: Russ, I think I'll take some of that betting action... I've never seen the slightest reference to James P. Williams being personally in Lancaster--- 1895-'96 he works out of 42 Dey St. and resides Fifth Ave. Manhattan, profession listed as dynamos, and in 1897 it's motors at 39 Cortlandt St..... I frankly don't believe that article written twenty years later stating that only two men could wind electrical appliances... A lot of stuff gets written about early days, and that one seems a stretch to me, so I'd better let you off the hook on the (almost) sure bet... Not to say that Williams was not electrically savvy, but George C. Towle was not only savvy, but confirmed to be on the spot at that time... And Kulp would be another possibility. Towle was always involved with electricity from this time on, and he's my bet... We're getting a bit wide of the mark..... again... and the Kulp water motor is being obscured by all the side lines... There's a need for sort of an omnibus Lancaster thread to cover all three early fan manufacturers, an impressive number for such a modest-sized city (94th largest in 1890)... Here's another to which I don't give credence; I don't believe 280 men were employed... 25 Aug 1897 Electrical Review So, back to Towle: Let's leave it there. Keep in mind, an 1896 listing is reporting what happened at some point in '95... Consequently, the Stauffers appear at Towle's initial address on E. Chestnut St. in 1897... They subsequently moved the Towle Co. to a facility on Arch St., more suitable to accommodate a larger work force... Plus, there is Stauffer's American Blower Co. to factor in..... to the omnibus thread... Towle and family are listed in the (Jun) 1900 census in Lowell MA. His ultimate Lancaster listing, as an electrician: And for a while Kulp and Brinser bounce back and forth between Lancaster and Marietta... 1896 Marietta Directory It's not clear whether Brinser remained with the Marietta Co., though I read it to be that he got out of there after a brief employment... He died quite young (41), in 1902. By the way, you'll remember I no longer have the access to directories, and this stuff I fortunately plucked a couple years ago and stored in the hard drive... so go easy on the asks... Did I even answer the question(s)? You shared directories in past showing Towle's presence in Lancaster during the timeline manufacture of the Globe. I have never been able to dig that kind of information up on the web. Thanks for the Lancaster directory Towle info. resurrection. The Globe/Paragon is William's baby. His name is seen as a witness on the motor patent from Freeman. It appears Williams Globe/Paragon adventure is not much different than Brinser and Kulp with the Crescent adventure. Williams it appears took Freeman's motor patent to Towle. And yes, Williams held sales office in NY. He was marketing Wachtel ceiling fans from his NY office. The Globe was also marketed through WE to the west. 1498394160370735607-00569866 (storage.googleapis.com) Kulp continued to solicit after the move to Marietta. I doubt Brinser made the move to Marietta. There is a lot of info. on the web that is BS. That's a no brainer. Wheeler invented the fan. 🙂 Edited May 2, 2023 by Russ Huber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) George C. Towle Metropolitan Management, Transportation and Planning books.google.com › books 1934 · Snippet view FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 135 From 1895 to 1899 he organized and operated the George C. Towle Manufacturing Company , now the Fidelity Electric Company , and at the time of his death was engaged in business in Philadelphia as a manufacturer's representative . 1918. Charles Stauffer became CEO of Fidelity Electric Co. in 1903 in place of his father John Forney Stauffer who passed in 03. CHARLES FONDERSMITH STAUFFER was born on a farm near Florin, Mount Joy Township, on October 8, 1869, the son of John Forney and Clara S. Fondersmith Stauffer. He attended the public schools of Lancaster, the Episcopal Parish School, and Yeates Institute. In the spring of 1889 he became associated with his father in contracting, and a short time later engaged in business for himself, with offices in Penn Square, Philadelphia. He was extensively employed in railroad work, grading and bridge construction of various kinds in many localities. He was employed at times by the following railroads: Reading; Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore; Chambersburg and Gettysburg; and the New York, New Haven and Hartford. Besides contracting, he also did notable work in landscaping, especially that about the old church at St. David's. He constructed the lake and did the landscape work in Long Park, near Lancaster. Edited May 2, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 By the way, you'll remember I no longer have the access to directories, and this stuff I fortunately plucked a couple years ago and stored in the hard drive... so go easy on the asks... Did I even answer the question(s)? ~ Steve Rockwell Yes, your access to those directories was critical to bring Towle's involvement with the 95-96 Globe to the light. To the best of my knowledge electrical trade is focused on J. P. Williams & Co. (sales agency) and Mr. J. P. Williams (sales agency), with no mention (I am aware of) of the true factory location, that being George C. Towle. In 1898 Towle comes to light in electrical trade with the charter. John Forney Stauffer it appears took the chair at George C. Towle Mfg. in 99. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 https://afcaforum.com/forum1/45772.html "and two others"..... are you still a betting man? https://afcaforum.com/view_topic.php?id=61855 https://afcaforum.com/forum1/22480.html https://afcaforum.com/view_post.php?post_id=520873 Paul, I'm sure we'll keep digging further into Kulp..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Michael Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) Thanks guys. I used to be 'adept' at deep research... perhaps one day I'll dig further on my own... I think genealogical investigations may also be useful, there's always the chance of those ties in otherwise 'separate' company. I did find another Kulp involved with early electricity- Monroe H. Kulp. President of the Shamokin and Edgewood Electric Train Company... 🤔 Edited May 2, 2023 by Paul Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 Out with George C. Towle, and in with John Stauffer in 99. John Stauffer dies in 03, and in with son Charles Stauffer and out with George C. Towle Mfg. Co., in with Fidelity Electric Co. for the long haul. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 You have to ask yourself, what went down in 95 between Towle and Williams? Does the 94 Lancaster directory support George C. Towle's business in town? The Freeman motor patent used to support the manufacture of the Globe/Paragon has William's name as a witness, no mention of Towle, nor is the patent assigned. To the best of my findings in electrical trade, nothing connects Towle to the manufacture of the Globe or Paragon until the 98 charter. William's name is all over it, yet, you can't pin William's to a Lancaster factory, only sales office. This why those 95-96 directories have opened a can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) I just knew I saw those directories before. The bets off. 🙂 If George C. Towle (electrical machinery) wasn't in Lancaster listed for 94, Something must have gone down between he and Williams to get the Globe manufactured in 95 in Lancaster. For that info., you may have had to have been a fly on the wall in the room. Hat's Off To Steve Rockwell - Pre-1950 (Antique) - Antique Fan Collectors Association - AFCA Forums Edited May 2, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 In 1897 the Chicago Edison (Insull brothers fingers in the pie, Martin-Samuel) purchased the entire Paragon fan NY exhibit from J. P. Williams. George C. Towle incorporates in 98. Paragon Fan & Motor Co. is moved to NY to GI. for the 1899 season. 1899 George C. Towle steps down from CEO of George C. Towle Mfg. Co. The president of GI in 99 is none other than Samuel Insull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rockwell Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Russ Huber said: John Forney Stauffer it appears took the chair at George C. Towle Mfg. in 99. ...Took the chair 1898, or by 1899, and I think the way it reads, the incorporation represents the joining of Towle and Stauffer interests, with George C. finding himself within a little more than a year to be redundant. He departed Lancaster and left Stauffers to the new enterprise, [possibly (hopefully) was bought out,] and Towle went to Boston and Syracuse and Dayton OH and Springfield OH and Logansport IN, et cetera until 1934 and his death. Buried in Piqua OH, so there's more biography to be discovered... though the portion which most interests me is the beginning of his Pennsylvania experience... 5 hours ago, Paul Michael said: I did find another Kulp involved with early electricity- Monroe H. Kulp. President of the Shamokin and Edgewood Electric Train Company... And here's yet another Kulp involved in railway work..... Edited May 2, 2023 by Steve Rockwell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Huber Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 (edited) It appears John & Ben Stauffer were managing the books at the time of the 98 charter. I wonder what/when Towle, Williams, and the Insulls had cooking very possibly in 98 with the Paragon fan motor line going to NY in 99? Edited May 3, 2023 by Russ Huber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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